VisionEXE: How Internet Money Changed My Producer Career

Esteban Candelario (00:06.226) Alright, guys, welcome back to Producer Talk. My name is Esteban, your host. And if you're new, new here, this is the podcast where we sit down with producers to break down what's actually working in today's music business. Producer Talk is presented by Producer Fury, the platform that helps producers find artists in their niche and reach out to them with confidence instead of spending hours searching for the right artists. Today I'm joined by Vision. He's a producer whose credits include Gunner, Roddy Rich, Tussi, G Herbo, Doughboy, and YSL.

VisionEXE (00:29.011) Go ahead.

Esteban Candelario (00:35.438) We're gonna talk about how he went from making ten symbols a day in his bedroom to landing major placements and how he joined internet money and why he's now focused on building long term relationships with independent artists. Vision, how are you, bro?

VisionEXE (00:48.061) I'm doing good bro. Thank you for having me.

Esteban Candelario (00:50.966) Likewise, man. Likewise. Where where you calling from today?

VisionEXE (00:54.409) Germany.

Esteban Candelario (00:55.766) Nice, I love that. What time is it? I think it's like ten ten or eleven for me.

VisionEXE (00:59.677) Like I'm really bad with like the American like way of saying like time it's like basically five in the e like five in the afternoon, yeah. Something like that. I don't know.

Esteban Candelario (01:09.07) Okay. Cool. awesome brother. So I guess just walk us through your journey. What what was your first experience or memory like before you got into producing? Like and how did that lead you to where you're at now?

VisionEXE (01:22.555) Like getting into music like the complete beginning? Okay.

Esteban Candelario (01:25.996) Yeah, like it like what was the first thing you remember as far as like, you know, what interested you in music?

VisionEXE (01:31.472) basically the lifestyle kinda because I got introduced of to like the concept of music, of like actually making music. Obviously I was listening to music before, but the concept of actually me making music was like the Wiz Khalifa vlogs back in the day. And I was like, damn, they live in a good life, you know. So that was like the first like time like the thought of actually making music for a living entered my head that that might be something that

Esteban Candelario (01:48.355) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (01:52.461) Ha ha.

VisionEXE (02:01.053) I would be interested in. And it was more because of like the way they were living instead of the music in the beginning. pretty much, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (02:10.584) Gotcha. Dude, what I remember watching the the Whiska the the vlogs. There's three eras in music. There's the blog era, there's the vlog era, and then there's like the streaming era, which like we're in right now. But the vlog era where like people were dropping like vlogs on YouTube, dude. I actually it's crazy. I learned how to roll a blunt because of Whisk Halifa. It was like in a Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? The one with the him the him in the hot tub. Yeah. Dude, dude, no. And I was probably like

VisionEXE (02:15.933) Yeah.

VisionEXE (02:20.115) Yeah, yeah,

VisionEXE (02:25.919) That was so good. Yeah. That video's legendary. That video's legendary.

Yeah, yeah. That's a legendary video, bro. God damn.

Esteban Candelario (02:39.79) I think I was like 12 or 13. I was really, really young. Nah, I was like 13, 14. That's probably when I started smoking. I was like 13, 14. But but no, that's that's hilarious. So, I mean, you kind of seen the lifestyle, and you're like, this is this is so cool. This is exactly like what I'd want to get into. How old were you at that time? Like, you know, 17? So from 17, looking at the vlogs and like kind of being influenced by Whiz Khalifa,

VisionEXE (02:45.951) I think it was like seventeen.

VisionEXE (02:55.411) Like seventeen. Seventeen around there, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (03:05.772) What were like the first initial steps you gave yourself to like get into music? Or was there a few things that happened before that even happened for you?

VisionEXE (03:14.393) pretty much like the Visual Scripture vlogs were basically just me like getting like a thought in my head that that might be actually a cool thing to do. but like nothing happened for like a couple months after that. And I have like one of her best friends is basically a music head who's like playing in bands and all this stuff. And we were talking about music like all the time because I was starting to get interested in it. And then on like a random

weekday I got like a tutorial from Inter Money, FL Studio, how to make a whatever type beat video and I just clicked on it like out of curious curio curiosity. I can't talk man. but I like like I saw them like making beats on F Studio and it looked like basically made like playing video games. And that kinda intrigued me. So I took that video, showed it to my homie and then we just basically got FL Studio the legal way obviously

Esteban Candelario (03:56.141) I got you.

VisionEXE (04:13.259) and then we just just like playing around for like a couple weeks, got a microphone, and then we're just making like this checks to our homies and stuff that were obviously really bad, but like it was just something like fun to do. and that is like the my first introduction to actually making music. I was beatboxing before, like I was doing a little of a little bit of beatboxing, but it was more like

Esteban Candelario (04:29.784) Yeah.

VisionEXE (04:43.387) Not like beatboxing how like like people see it on YouTube right nowadays. It was more like I was walking to like school every day for like 30 minutes and I was just listening to music and I was trying to like do the drum patterns that I heard as beatbox just because I was like bored walking. I had no idea what the snare was, like what like time signatures are or like keys or anything. I was just trying to replicate it. and that kind of down the line helped me definitely like

Esteban Candelario (05:06.808) Yeah.

VisionEXE (05:13.683) get into drums, making drums. But yeah, that was pretty much the introduction of actually making music.

Esteban Candelario (05:21.614) That's that's interesting. Now that's funny that you mentioned like the friends dissing each other. I remember like especially when SoundCloud was popping in high school, people would be like dissing each other from like different high schools and stuff like that. but that's interesting. How much of an impact do you think the beatboxing had on how well you were able to produce, like starting off? Do you think that was like a good starting point for you?

VisionEXE (05:29.769) Yeah.

VisionEXE (05:43.294) I think like in the beginning it helped me like I had like real trouble starting making music because I had no foundational music. I didn't play an instrument as a kid, except maybe in school like flute or something for like I don't know, two weeks or something, but I had like no experience at all. I was like complete, complete beginner. And it kinda helped me like

like realize okay this is a snare. You know, if I hear it in the song, this is the snare. And this is like where the snare usually goes and stuff like that. But it really showed the impact down the line, like multiple years later, when I was like really like already in it. because it just helps me like come up with like natural basic natural grooves or natural pockets. Because I like what I do right now is if I make like a song or like a beat,

I basically just take my microphone, have like the melody I make playing, and then I just beatbox into the mic and you can unable to basically drag an audio file into a MIDI lane and extract like drum patterns. So I just basically beatbox, get a drum pattern, fix it up a little bit, add a little bit more to it or like take something away, and then like the drums are basically kinda done.

Esteban Candelario (07:01.09) What? That's crazy. So you don't actually like input them. That's crazy. I I mean I'm sure like the the the the work pace is really, really fast then if you're just beatboxing your Yeah. and then what do you come up with your ideas? Is it just more on the spot when you're beatboxing or do you kind of like go off like a reference that you've heard or something like that? Like how does that work?

VisionEXE (07:09.214) Yeah, it's really fast. Yeah.

VisionEXE (07:20.414) Sometimes I try to like when I get like references, but it's most of the time just can I swear? Okay, I'm just fucking around. I'm like it's most of the time I just like either as just sit here and like there's this like kind of feeling you get from the sample already and I'm just following that or if I like go outside and like just fuck around like beatboxing, then I just pick take on my phone and just record it.

Esteban Candelario (07:28.152) Yeah, go ahead, you can say whatever you want. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (07:36.184) Wow, that's good.

VisionEXE (07:49.525) And then I can also drag it from there, like airdrop it, and then instantly have it enabled. And then build on top of that, like the other way around. But most of the time it's just fucking around and seeing like what kinda like vibe I'm going for.

Esteban Candelario (08:03.832) Hm. And do are you having like a bunch of ideas throughout the day and you're like recording it through your phone? Or is it more like, Yeah, okay, that's interesting. I wish. That'd be like the greatest skill if I knew how to if I knew how to beatbox because I do have ideas, but my timing, like naturally, my timing is so bad. So whenever I try to play it in real time on a MIDI, it it does it never comes out the way I want it to, but I just do it until like I like it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

VisionEXE (08:08.244) Yeah, yeah.

VisionEXE (08:19.712) Mm.

VisionEXE (08:27.71) I get that. But like f I feel like for me is the other way around. I'm really bad with pitch. Like like recognizing pi pitch is like really hard for me. Like I have to like work on it really, really hard to get like to a like normal level. but I feel like my rhythmic, like sense is much better. So I kinda feel you there.

Esteban Candelario (08:31.288) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (08:48.908) I feel that, especially if you're doing it like on a daily basis. I don't think I practice as much. But so you learn how to beatbox and then you kinda use it to your advantage when you make drums. Were you 'cause I know you mentioned the vlog era, like watching with Khalifa and stuff like that. Were you ever watching like any videos about how to make beats? And was there any like particular people or groups that you were watching?

VisionEXE (09:07.988) Yeah. Yeah, obviously. like obviously I already mentioned Inter Money. I was basically just Intel Money fanboy. So I was just like yeah, I'm I I was just like inhaling all of the tutorials, basically everything. obviously like in the complete beginning, busy work speeds. I remember like even though like I'm not the biggest fan, like he did it

Esteban Candelario (09:19.182) Yeah. Everyone was. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (09:31.5) Mm, that's another one.

VisionEXE (09:36.201) lot of for the producer community, but I'm not the biggest fan of like the way he makes beats kinda. but I remember like when I was sick and not at school, I was just like watching tutorials in bed. I was basically falling asleep to Inter Money tutorials, busy work beats tutorials and like all of these other people like Chucky Beats, Kyle Beats, like they are all these people, you know. And so but Inter Money is definitely like the biggest one.

Esteban Candelario (10:05.678) Mm now Kyle Beats' I mean I I don't watch his content all the time, but I still his videos pop up on my feet all the time. Like he's always doing crazy challenges. But man, internet money had everyone on a fucking chokehold, bro. Like, I mean like I don't I don't know if if that was like all organic a hundred percent or if they were like low key getting pushed. Not now that I look back on it, like maybe through a label, I don't know. But it's just like the way they had everybody on a chokehold was insane. So go ahead.

VisionEXE (10:29.908) Yeah. I mean I think they just like like I feel like they hit the spot perfectly and did it perfectly. Like there was this time when like twenty sixteen, seventeen, like fifteen, like I feel like that's when like producing got like a lot bigger. It was obviously already there, sound click error and all the stuff, even though I I personally didn't like I wasn't there. But like I feel like around twenty sixteen, fifteen, like with the new generation of like trap or like rap artists

Esteban Candelario (10:36.29) Yeah.

VisionEXE (10:59.486) I feel like it blew up, but the content to learn how to make beats was still like really, really underdeveloped. And then you had like internet money come in with like a team of people who could like basically make content every day. So they could just switch out like who does the video today. I feel like they just came in and they hit like the in German it's called Zahnerzeit. It's like the

They hit like the perfect moment. Like a lot of like things came together at perfectly at the same time and that's what's w like what exploded them basically. I feel like.

Esteban Candelario (11:29.422) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (11:37.423) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like they they also like created a new part of the music industry, which is like looping, bro. Like looping is a whole industry in itself. Like that's just like a whole people like I ta a lot of the producers I talk to now actually, they're actually just more more loopers than they are producers, you know? And I find it funny now, like if you go on people's profiles, like everybody can be like credited on a song because they send loops. And I I notice I notice that's like also a thing as well, like, you know, which I mean kudos to you, like it's still credit to a song, like you know what I mean?

VisionEXE (11:52.01) Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.

Esteban Candelario (12:07.564) But it's just interesting to see how like now it's like a whole new path for people. Now like, you know, if you want, you could just focus on a loop and you could probably make way more loops in a day than you can make a beat beats in a day, you know what I mean?

VisionEXE (12:18.932) Yeah. It depends like if you're making beats with samples then I think I can like if I use samples I can probably make thirty to forty beats a day. Like if I r no no no if I like just go to like waves or like splice or whatever that is, or like use loops that people sent me, I can make like thirty beats. Because I feel like beat making like I feel like I don't know if it's like a like biased thing, but I think sample making

Esteban Candelario (12:23.8) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (12:29.218) R off one sample? Okay. Okay. Okay.

Mm, yeah, true. True.

VisionEXE (12:48.594) is way harder than making drums. and I feel like drums dictate the genre and like the vibe of the beat more than the sample. But I feel like if you're like a really good drum maker you can make like forty beats a day. If you like really sit down.

Esteban Candelario (12:52.888) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (13:04.978) Mm, interesting. So well I mean, do you do you so all your beats you go off the drums and not the melody, I'm assuming? Since you're since you're you built everything around your drums?

VisionEXE (13:18.984) I I do both. Like I re s like basically I just started making drums like a year ago maybe, or like half a year ago. because I was just a sample maker. And that time I didn't make do any drums at all. Like I made like ten beats in five years or something. But I made like four thousand samples. So yeah. Like these days I go it really depends on what draw I'm drawing I'm making. If I make like a Pharrell 2 2000 swag beat.

then I always start with the drums. Because I feel like that's like core. And I feel like the melody there is less like not important but like I feel like drums just give the beat way more. but if I'm making like a Verizon Taylor trap soul beat, then I always go melody first. Because I feel like on that kind of genre like the mood is everything and the drums are like second priority. So it really depends on

Esteban Candelario (13:49.376) Uh-huh.

Esteban Candelario (14:05.954) Yeah.

VisionEXE (14:16.971) What I'm making.

Esteban Candelario (14:19.032) That's interesting. Yeah, no, I agree. Especially especially on the genre. and it's funny when you mentioned like Pharrell type beats, like the only thing I actually remember are the drums itself. Like you know what I mean? Anytime I listen to any other songs. at at any point of time, 'cause you mentioned that you had got FL Studio in a microphone with your friend in high school. At any point of time were you guys were you trying to be an artist as well and then you just became a full time producer? And like so how did that go? How do you go from being

VisionEXE (14:29.184) Yeah.

VisionEXE (14:44.715) Yeah. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (14:48.844) a musician to just being a producer itself.

VisionEXE (14:52.125) I basically like we were making songs and they were just sounding horrible. and it was like a multitude of things because we were only using our own beats and the beats were horrible, like not that they were crazy bad. the vocals were crazy bad and the mixing was crazy bad. So it was just stacked on top. And I'm like a type of guy when I like want to get into something, then I just wanna learn it from like

Esteban Candelario (14:58.83) Yeah.

VisionEXE (15:19.893) the base layer, so I want to learn like everything there is to learn about it. So I always like think about like let's say I want to make a song, right? Like the song is like a top of the pyramid and I want to start in the building blocks. So that's for me it's like the beat, the vocals, the mixing. And then you can go like on the beat you can go way down. You can do like sample making. Like you can go further down into sample making like what chords do you use, you know what chord progression.

you can go so deep on like all these things on producing and I thought about, okay, we need the beats, so I'm gonna learn how to make beats yet now and then I just completely lost myself in like trying to learn how to make beats basically.

Esteban Candelario (16:02.976) Mm. Yeah, you got you got so deep you just it sucked you in. It was like a rabbit hole. And I I I think I mean it might be a personality trait too, but like there's definitely a certain type of person who dives into producing more than a per person who just wants to rap or sing. Like you know what I mean? I mean, that's not the the downplay like a vocalist at all, but like there's so much more of like a complexity when it when it comes to producing. Like when you mentioned the pyramid, I mean the beat is where it's just the start of it. And honestly, like

VisionEXE (16:06.965) Yeah, yeah, it was

VisionEXE (16:28.96) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (16:32.588) An engineer to me are are like the people who who make the song. Like you can have trash vocals, but if you have the right engineer on it and they produce it well, like it'll sound like it could sound like a hit song, you know what I mean?

VisionEXE (16:45.255) Yeah, I like fifty fifty degree. Because I think like it r like not to like bring it up again, but I feel like it comes down to drawer. Because I feel like if you have like if you go back to like different like times or people, then there's always like certain styles that sound very, very like demo-ish and very very like rough. And that's like kinda what makes it. but if like you go into like

Esteban Candelario (16:48.598) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (17:07.715) Mm.

VisionEXE (17:13.697) pop, R and B and this stuff, then I feel like the engineer like becomes like ten times more valuable. Because th I feel like that those are genres where like like your vocal just can't sound really fucked up. You know, it has to be like polished clean, it has to like be tuned correctly, you know, melodyne correctly. like you have to have the clean mix and like I feel like you need a great engineer. And I feel like a gr in great engineer has like a lot of like value there.

Esteban Candelario (17:20.694) That's facts.

Esteban Candelario (17:27.246) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (17:43.338) Mm. Yeah, that's like that's like when XXX Nitashi Yon recorded on a snowball microphone. What was that one song? Look At Me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. And then got like millions of views on on fucking SoundCloud.

VisionEXE (17:45.929) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was it look at me? Yeah.

VisionEXE (17:55.328) Yeah, but that I swear to God, that sound and like like acts in general like taught me so much about like making music. There's this quote from like Phineas, like Billy Irish brother and producer, who said that basically like you have to know the rules, right? But if there's something that sounds good to you, like the rules don't matter. It's like if it sounds overcompressed.

Or like if it's like super distorted, but that's exactly what you like about it, then like the rule doesn't apply, you know, because people are always gonna tell you, you should have done this differently, this differently. But if you think like honestly in your art that it sounds good, you obviously can't lie to yourself, but if it sounds good like that and you want it to sound like that, then that's like there's no argument against that. And like no rule against that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (18:48.172) Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that probably comes down to taste too. I guess like it's a matter of like how good is your taste. Or or like, I don't know, 'cause a lot of people that there's a lot of like XXX is a good example. Look at me. There's a lot of people who were like, yo, this shit sounds like shit. But there's a lot of people like, I like this. To me it was more like punk, like punkish. Kind of like punk rock. so I guess it's down to like what that time is, you know, that time being. And at that time that was just what what it was the culture was.

VisionEXE (18:54.038) Yeah.

VisionEXE (19:01.846) Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

VisionEXE (19:12.971) Yeah. I feel I feel like you said something like incredible. Like taste is basically everything. Like you can be the best like composer or like the best like piano guitar player. You can be like anything, but if your taste is trash then like you're not gonna get anywhere. Like taste is like taste rules everything. It's it's insane.

Esteban Candelario (19:16.514) Mm. Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (19:30.402) I think I think I think timing rules everything too, timing and taste. Like if you have the right taste at the right era, like it just hits. It o it always is gonna hit. so speaking speaking of eras, so after seventeen years old and you know, you got FL Studios and you transitioned from being like an artist to like a full time producer and like getting into that. What were you doing like after you graduated high school?

VisionEXE (19:33.279) Yeah, true, true. Yeah. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (19:53.837) Like was there like a s like was there anything you're doing specifically? like working a job and then like trying to produce or just focusing on producing? Like what was that like?

VisionEXE (19:58.87) Yeah. I was just like making like just making beats the whole time. I didn't really have like I was just basically making beats and like going nowhere with it. So I wasn't sending them out, I had no connections, I had no Instagram, I had no Twitter, I had nothing, like no social media basically. I was just sitting at home making beats and then I basically had to get a job. started like

in I don't know what's called in like English, but like in German it's like Ausbildung. It's basically where you like train to be a certain job ba down the line. I started that and I quickly realized within like three months that I just wanted to make music. And I really couldn't balance both things because I was like working a job where you have to basically like work forty five hours a week a around the sh don't quote in that. But like

I just realized I didn't want do this. So I quit. Like my parents were like not really happy. But I quit the job. And my parents basically told me that I have to do something. So I went to university for audio engineering. Even though I wasn't really interested in engineering. But I thought okay, like if I go there I basically learn everything about engineering, hopefully get better at that while making beats. And through that my beats are gonna get be better.

Maybe I meet some people that down the line helped me accomplish something. yeah, did that pretty much for like I got my diploma and like one and a half years. And that's pretty much what I did after high school. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (21:46.307) Hm. Yeah, man, it's really, really hard like balance when like you wanna do I mean your passion could be the death of your life, dude. Cause your passion can like just drag you down, especially if nothing especially if you're not making any money. And I'm sure like working forty five hours a week, like it was getting into making beats too. Like you're you're working more a little over full time, you know? I mean it kind of made sense though, like you went the you went the college route. 'Cause even though like I I mean I I'm sure you thought the same, but you probably did it just to make your parents a little bit happier to

VisionEXE (22:02.006) Yeah.

VisionEXE (22:13.996) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (22:14.19) to you know get the diploma in audio engineering. but it makes sense to go that route. Like if you are gonna go to school, at least go to school for something that's around the same area that you're already into. You know what I mean? Like I talked to a lot of people who are like going to school to be like a lawyer. And I'm like you may be you're producing and you're gonna I like I don't know. It's just so like far from each other. Yeah, yeah. So I just I find that interesting. So from go ahead, go ahead.

VisionEXE (22:25.302) Yeah. Yeah.

VisionEXE (22:34.664) Yeah. Different worlds. Yeah.

VisionEXE (22:40.448) I mean I i if I would have like if I had to redo it, I wouldn't have I wouldn't do it the same way as I did it. because I was like so brainwashed by like you can't have a nine to five and this and that, you know, I was like really brainwashed back in the day from like gurus and all this shit. that I just didn't want a nine to five. And I basically like made my life hell for like

a couple of years because I was basically living off of nothing and just hoping that music would day one day pay off. And like if I would do it again I would like definitely not do it the same way. I would just work a nine to five and do music on the side.

Just because like feel like I don't know, like how to say it, but like when I was working in 9 to 5, I feel like I always felt like I didn't have that much time, so I had to make the time count. And even though I had less time, I feel like sometimes I was even more productive than if I had the whole day. plus you get the money. Like there are a lot of like moments in my career where

Esteban Candelario (23:44.394) Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (23:58.005) I could have like probably gotten bigger than I am right now, but I couldn't just because I didn't have enough money to like pursue that. As an example, I was never in LA. I was never in Atlanta. I was never in the US even. Just because like my budget just didn't allow it, because I have to pay for rent for like insurance and all that stuff. And basically all my money for years went down the drain instantly because of that. And then even if I had the opportunity, yo come come to LA, you can stay at my place for like four weeks, doesn't matter.

Just pull up, like I just couldn't do it. Like even if I wanted to. And that's like something I definitely if I could go back in time would not do again.

Esteban Candelario (24:39.704) How about like even with the internet, like even with like social media, do you think you still think that's just as important to like go to these places like LA, New York? Really? Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (24:46.518) Yeah, yeah. I feel like the internet is like the thing that opens the doors. But like and you could obviously explode on the internet and all that stuff, but like if you really wanna be an industry producer, you can't go around like sessions. I've like or at least meeting people. Because like if I meet someone on the internet and we DM and we are on the call and we're just cooking up for like let's let's let's say a year, that relationship is gonna ten X.

Esteban Candelario (24:51.639) I agree, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (25:02.168) Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (25:15.38) and trust and everything if you just meet once. Just because like the real life connection is like that strong like it's so strong because you just bond over anything, you know? And it's like insanely, insanely, insanely important. If you really want to like make it an industry, like you have to travel. You have to go on these sessions. You have to meet these people because like that's just how it goes. I feel like

Esteban Candelario (25:25.592) I agree.

Esteban Candelario (25:40.495) I agree. Especially like post like 2020 when like everyone is like stuck inside their houses. I feel like more people order Uber Eats, more people would rather interact through DMs than then in person. So I feel like the value of your face card is even more important now because less people are willing to do it. You know what I mean? interesting. So when you are kind of going through that process, I know you also mentioned like making beats with like looperman samples.

VisionEXE (25:54.134) Yeah. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (26:09.282) When did you realize you should be making samples?

VisionEXE (26:12.156) basically after I finished my oil and engineering degree, I was working like odd jobs here and there. And then I had this like this month where I lost one of those jobs. Girlfriend broke up with me and then I was like like nothing is like going my way. And I was I wasn't the youngest, you know, I was like twenty at the time. And if you could like look at now they're like fifteen year old producers going winning Grammys.

Esteban Candelario (26:40.386) Right. And it's crazy.

VisionEXE (26:42.06) But I was like feeling like I was just like feeling I'm I was stuck, like my music wasn't going anywhere. And I just had to take like a hard look. And I was like I was just seeing that Looperman, like that there are people on Looperman who just post samples and the Instagram explodes, they get connections and they get songs from that. So my idea was, okay, so there is definitely a demand for samples there. And I never made a sample in my life before that, like maybe ten or something.

But I was willing to learn. And then I just said, okay, I'm I think it was like like January 14th of like 2020, I think. That's when I said, okay, fuck it. I'm gonna start making samples. And I'm gonna do it for the next 30 days, I'm gonna make 10 a day. I was just gonna sit in my room for like twelve hours, fourteen hours, and just make as many samples as possibly could. And was always like aiming for like ten. So that was my my theory. And I was like, okay.

Like the first couple months when I'm learning and my samples get better, I'm gonna just gonna post all of them to Looperman so I can like build a base of like followers on Instagram and maybe get one or two connections and from there we'll see how it goes. That was like my my my my plan. So post loop loops on Looperman and you could always link it, like link your Instagram stuff, and then people would just like go on your Instagram. And I did that for I think like fourteen days.

Let's like 140 loops on Looperman. And then I got the first couple DMs. I got like a hundred followers or something. And I got the first couple DMs from people saying, Yo, I heard your s sample used in a session. I'm in L in LA right now. And then I was like, And he was like, You should probably take them down because you're not gonna get a cut if they're actually gonna use it. And that's when I started like realizing, okay, yeah, this is all royalty-free. If something happens, I would like to be cut in. And then

I basically just asked around how to get my samples to these people and they all said just grab the email and send them samples and then hope for the best. And that's what I did basically. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (28:52.191) And what what year was this?

VisionEXE (28:54.53) I it was twenty tw I'm really bad with like dates, but I think it was January fourteenth, twenty twenty. I started yeah, it has to be, yeah. January f January fourteenth, twenty twenty I started like posting on Looperman. Yeah, pretty much.

Esteban Candelario (29:08.182) This was like the perfect time to be sending loops because you or making loops because you don't have nothing. Everyone's like locked in their crib, like you know what I mean? That's crazy though. A hundred and forty loops in fourteen days is just like in insane. so w where do you go from like start when you start sending these emails out? Like is there any opportunities that you gain from that really quickly, or does it take a long time?

VisionEXE (29:28.668) I think like 2020 was obviously a different time. so like back in the day there were like a handful of good loop makers that actually make good samples like in general. I definitely wasn't one of them. I was really bad. I openly say it if I go through my 2020 folder I just wanna cringe. It's really bad. but I was just making 10 samples a day and I was just grabbing emails from everybody, mostly intime money guys, because I was already like familiar with them.

But I would get like a hundred emails and then send ten samples a day for like fourteen days. And after like fourteen days, like exactly a month after I started, I basically got a DM to join Insta join Intel Money from Repco. and that was basically the first big opportunity ever I ever got. So yeah, pretty much.

Esteban Candelario (30:19.8) mean you mentioned you weren't good. Do you do you think they had an interest in you 'cause they were just saying how hard you were grinding?

VisionEXE (30:25.293) That was definitely one of the things. the other one was just big luck. Because I think Rapco opened one of the packs where like a couple samples were really good, but the rest like I have I maybe had a hit rate of like a percent. Like like let's say five percent. If I make a hundred samples, five of them are good, you know? And I think he just came across like one pack that was like decent, like half of the loops were decent, and then he made like a couple beats and he really liked some of the beats.

Esteban Candelario (30:30.702) Mm.

VisionEXE (30:55.319) And then he just wanted to sign me. And that was pure luck.

Esteban Candelario (31:01.262) So I mean, w how did that feel? Like when you got that email back and he wanted to sign you, you're probably like ecstatic as fuck. R DM, yeah.

VisionEXE (31:06.497) Yeah, I got a DM, I got a DM, yeah. I mean I basically I like w woke up and I had to go look for a job but like I think I had like a job interview or something and I slept through it because I was up all night making samples and then my mom was really pissed and then I basically got the DM and I was like god damn this is this is it you know I was like all this way work finally paid off. I was like I was more than ecstatic.

Esteban Candelario (31:16.44) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (31:24.046) That's funny. That's funny.

Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (31:34.883) Mm.

VisionEXE (31:36.961) Especially because like I learned how to make beats from entire money. yeah. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (31:42.392) full circle. I mean did you tell your mom like even though you missed the interview, like you told her like you told her like, hey look, I'm about to get signed and like was she like

VisionEXE (31:45.601) Yeah, I told everybody.

Yeah yeah. But she would she didn't believe it yet. Like like I mean it's like we're like in the middle of Germany. My my mom basically doesn't really speak English, so she has no connection to like anything music in that world. So for her was it was like like random stuff. Yeah. Hella.

Esteban Candelario (31:57.465) Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (32:06.21) Disconnect, a big disconnect. So how long were you signed to internet money and how long were like sending samples to them?

VisionEXE (32:13.212) I was signed for them to them for nine months. Ten months, I think. Nine, ten months. Yeah. And yeah.

Esteban Candelario (32:21.09) And how did that go? Like how's that experience for you?

VisionEXE (32:24.001) eye-opening. Like like if I break it down, it was a very positive experience. like before I was very I had no direction in music. So like I said I wasn't sending out beats because I just didn't know how. I didn't know how like the industry worked. I don't didn't know how to get a placement. I didn't know anything basically. How the business worked, how like I got set how to get placements, anything. So I was very like no direction.

And after I got out, basically I saw like what it takes to actually do something in the in this industry, how the business works, how to actually connect with people, how like the sessions work, how everything works. I basically got a complete inside look on the industry, and that kind of gave me a direction to see okay, this is where I want to go now. that was like a huge, huge, huge positive like experience.

It wasn't always easy. Because I like I attributed to not being good enough at the time. and like styles clashing because I was making more darktrap stuff than they were making more melodic little tech stuff at the time. And I basically had to learn this n whole new style while also not like being good at anything yet. So

I basically would strike at every time. Like the I would send samples. It's not good. The shit shit shit. You know? And I didn't take that in like a in like a I didn't take that personally because I knew like I just started it. Like I n like you know, I need time to get actually good get good at this because I didn't have like the musical background. but yeah, it was overall a like very

Esteban Candelario (33:54.872) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (34:02.83) Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (34:16.215) like positive time and I was very happy to be given that opportunity, even though it like didn't work out at the end. but yeah that's pretty much how that went.

Esteban Candelario (34:28.398) Yeah, I feel like it was a necessary like way to experience it, even though you didn't get opportunities from it. Like you needed to go through that experience anyways. You know what I mean? Okay.

VisionEXE (34:35.779) Yeah. I mean I got opportunities from it. It's just that like my music wasn't converting, you know. I obviously like sent out beats like I send out samples like multiple times a day to them. But it's just that either the songs didn't come out because that's what happens, you know, or like samples just didn't get picked because they're not were not good enough. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (34:42.55) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (34:47.054) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (34:51.518) Hmm, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (34:57.256) Mm. But also I I think I should like rephrase what I said. I I f personally feel like like within that moment of your life getting signed to internet money is what probably pushed you even more. Like you know what I'm saying? Because it was like a sign almost. You know what I mean? and it was necessary. Like, even though like, you know, a lot of things were happening, it's not like, you know, you had that one life changing experience, you know what I mean? But you just needed that like I almost felt like it was pushing you, you know what I mean?

VisionEXE (35:09.389) Yeah, yeah. It threw me Yeah.

VisionEXE (35:25.527) Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Esteban Candelario (35:26.646) so then so then where's the journey go from there? Like at ten months after, you know, you got you guys kind of it's not a falling out, but you guys mutually agree, like, you know, yeah, part of part of your ways. So was there anything you learned as far as like, you know, maybe about producer contracts or anything like on the business side?

VisionEXE (35:36.355) Yeah, we're just part of ways.

VisionEXE (35:46.634) I definitely learned like how the industry works business wise. but I was more focused about like where I go from from there, you know. So how like I didn't get any like big songs that actually came out in that time. And I definitely grew a lot of like connections and mutuals and networking opportunities. I definitely used that because I was like hitting up everybody back in the day.

Because like I felt like that internet money like name gave me leverage. That means like I'm not a random guy right now, you know? So that means I could slide in a lot of like people's DMs. And I got like a lot of connections from that. But I wasn't sure like where to go from here. And then I just basically decided to like start content. Start like the tutorials, start making short form content, everything. And basically just keep making samples and sending those out because I felt like

At that time it was still worth it to do that. I just felt like a lottery ticket every time I send out samples and I was very happy when I see like I go to MailTrake and I see he opened it, he opened it, and stuff like that. So that's pretty much like what my goal was after. I was just I'm gonna go full in on content, learn how to make content and actually make samples and send them out, continue doing it.

Esteban Candelario (37:12.558) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think content is so important. I feel like like if you do de I mean, you're lucky enough to have like that internet money name attached to yourself because like you you were smart to use that as leverage. But I also feel like like having great content will could be the biggest difference between people actually like answering your DM or even opening your DM. Like they get the notification, they go through your page, and like most producers don't realize that. And my biggest pet pee is when producers don't show their face. Like they just show like the screen or whatever. It's like no dude show people

VisionEXE (37:30.221) Hundred percent.

VisionEXE (37:38.391) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (37:41.528) Trust the face more than they do a logo or a recording of something. You know what I mean?

VisionEXE (37:43.115) A hundred percent. That's also why like if you post content with your face in it, it's always gonna do better. Always. It's like a human thing.

Esteban Candelario (37:48.799) Mm-hmm. Facts. Yeah, facts. So was there any opportunities or any people you met from the networking, from you know, reaching out and then, you know, creating more content for yourself? Was there any big breaks or anything like that?

VisionEXE (38:02.178) Yeah, a lot of a lot of big breaks actually. like the content basically allowed me to farm followers. Like I was already like I was I think I had like 3k followers after I left Inter Money because I was doing like I started doing content when I was in Inter Money. But that allowed me to get like a lot of mutual followers, which is also very important. If you're gonna slide in people's DMs and they see that

Like all and have money members follow you, then you have like multiple Drake producers following you, you have like a lot of big three people following you that gives you like social credit and it makes it easier for them to say, okay, he probably has some value to provide, or he has like something to provide, or you just want to connect. but yeah, like met a lot of like great people like Eli, Eli Brown, the goat, waves from Where's the Cook Up, amazing guy.

I met like so many, so many, so many great people that like taught me so many different lessons. yeah. I met like a lot of like amazing people through like content and then being able to like them following me and building a relationship and through the whole like inter money networking, sliding of people's DMs, basically. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (39:18.2) Yeah, but you mentioned mu dude, mutuals are so important. I didn't even think about that. Like if somebody who kind of already is established in the industry sees that you maybe have a few mutuals, like that's probably the biggest another big factor between them like actually following you or replying to you. Hm.

VisionEXE (39:29.177) Yeah.

I mean I always say it, if like it doesn't matter how big the producer is, like their like behavior on Instagram is like mostly the same. Like if you get like a request on a DM and you go on through like requests because everybody goes through their request, or like most of them do, they just go to the chat. Most of the time they don't even read what you're saying, they just go to your profile, they check for like followers, credits, mutuals and then what your page looks like.

Esteban Candelario (39:49.646) Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (40:00.136) And if all of these like basically signal that you have something to offer or that you are like a worthwhile connection, then they're gonna go back and see what you wrote and answer or not or like follow you back and stuff like that. So those are like things to optimize, you know? Like content is gonna give you the followers and the mutuals, your profile's gotta look like the part, that means credits, studio sessions, photodums, like nothing has to look like

Esteban Candelario (40:15.917) Yeah.

VisionEXE (40:28.908) You're just a random guy posting beats, you know. You need to like signal people that you're actually worth following, that you're actually serious about this.

Esteban Candelario (40:38.158) Agree. It almost feels like a resume, like a digital resume, and you're just like, yeah, that's exactly what it feels like. Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (40:41.816) Yeah. like your Instagram is your portfolio. Your Instagram as a producer is your portfolio. And it's like it's just how how it is, you know? And doesn't have to I I hate it when people say it has to look professional because I don't think like professional equals like good, you know? Because if like people have in there a music producer for this and that and this like that doesn't signal me like value it it basically just like I hate it when it's like super professional. But like

Esteban Candelario (41:09.528) Hm, really? That's interesting.

VisionEXE (41:11.362) Yeah, I mean like there are a lot of people that like I always use Steven Schaefer as an example for like a great Instagram because I feel like if you go to his Instagram you instantly get to like see who he is. You see the accomplishments that he got and you instantly see like hear the music that that he's making in a fun way, not just posting like the wave sign beats, you know. He's making videos about them, but in like a very authentic way.

And I feel like like Steven Schaefer probably has like f for my opinion, like one of the best Instagrams. And even if like he only had a thousand followers with that profile, it wouldn't matter. Because like the profile plus like the mutual mutuals and everything is just like convincing enough to like at least follow back or like answer DM.

Esteban Candelario (41:58.412) Mm. No, yeah, a hundred a hundred percent. I'm gonna have to look him up. I don't think I don't think I know who Steven Schaefer is, but I'll definitely look him up from from this conversation. So so then where do like the placements start coming into play for you at this point? 'Cause I know last time we talked you were you were talking about like connecting with Antoine Waters and maybe doing a voice note for him for and that became a a placement for a gunner or a Tussie record, I think.

VisionEXE (42:04.77) Yeah. It's insane producer.

Esteban Candelario (42:25.647) so like, you know, where where do these placements come into play for you and like how do they start coming into play for you?

VisionEXE (42:30.014) basically the the Gunnar one was very like random and took a long time. basically I was in this production mentorship class from Eli Brown and through that he followed me. And one day in twenty twenty two, like I think it like it has to be like Janu January, February twenty twenty two, is where I went through Instagram and I was looking for vocal samples.

Because at the time I was like starting to get into RB and I feel like I needed vocal samples to level up my samples and I couldn't sing for shit. So I needed to look for somebody that's great. And then I went through like Instagram, just like opening a profile from like a producer in that lane and clicking the little drop down and seeing who people like follow or like who's similar. And then I got onto Anthony Walter's profile and he had like the little highlights.

Esteban Candelario (43:08.725) Ha ha.

VisionEXE (43:28.034) And then it was basically him just sitting at a piano, playing a couple of chords and singing, like the give your give you on video for like Chicago Freestyle, kind of like that. And like the second I heard it, the first one, I was like, bro, this is like the most beautiful shit ever. I swear to god, I will I had never in my life had a moment like that where I was like, my god, how like this is incredible. And I was just very honest in the DMs. I basically just messaged him.

Was honest, I was like, bro, I was just scrolling through internet Instagram and I heard this, and bro, I would love to flip this. I would love to like make a beat. I know I can just download it, but I wanted to come to you and like ask for permission, obviously. and then he was like, Yo, thank you so much, da-da-da. And he was like, I think he was like, Message me back in five days. I'm on the road right now, I'll send you a pack. And then, like, five days later, I messaged him again, and he sent me like I think like 50-60 voice mails. And that day I sat down.

Esteban Candelario (44:24.215) Wow.

VisionEXE (44:27.65) And I made two loops. the first one was called Chanel number five, and the second one, second one was called Champs-Elysee. And I sent him back to him, and he really loved the Chanel number five. But in my eyes, the Champs-Élysée one was like the clear like hit. and he like reposted the sample I sent him, the Chanel number five, and he followed me and like threw that because his manager is

Esteban Candelario (44:47.865) Yeah.

VisionEXE (44:58.254) Frank Dukes. like a lot of like people from Kingsway, a lot of like people followed me through that, through like a single Instagram story. And that happened basically, and then I kept working with him. To this day I do, because he's like he's legit one of the best people, hands down I ever met in like music. He's just a sweetheart, god. but that happened. We continued working, but three years passed.

And I sent those samples out like in twenty twenty two and three years passed and one of my homies, Dison, used that sample in twenty twenty two. But a couple of weeks later I got a new laptop and in twenty twenty five he was working on a Tusi album and he like rebooted his old PC and found a couple beats and he heard that beat and he finished it and sent it to Tusi. And Tusi basically cut it on TikTok live the same night and would like was like going viral on

Esteban Candelario (45:51.449) Bro.

VisionEXE (45:57.455) TikTok to snippet alone and then he decided to put Gunnar on it, shoot the music video, and then it was like the single for this next album. And that's basically how that went, you know. I didn't even know I didn't even know Gunnar was on there until like five days or six days, six days before like the song drops.

Esteban Candelario (45:59.321) Uh-huh.

Esteban Candelario (46:11.535) That's fucking

Esteban Candelario (46:17.431) That's crazy. You probably forgot about it. Three years later, bro. I would have nah

VisionEXE (46:20.045) Yeah, bro, I bro, I was like, I was like with a homie, he's also producer, big huge, huge producer in Germany. I actually got his merge on right now. I was like at his studio and Diesel just messaged me and he like, Yo, is this your sample? And then he sent me like a snippet a snippet from TC. And I I was listening to it and I was I wasn't sure at first. I was like, I think it is. And I went through my Dropbox and my

phone because I kinda knew I heard the vocals and I knew it was like it sounded like Anton and went through and I found it. I sent it to him and was Yes, this is the same. And then he was like, Yo, we got one on Tuesday Too C's new album. I was like, cool. But like I didn't really knew knew Too C at the time. And was like, okay, there's like another placement, cool. Let's see if it drops. I wasn't like I was excited, but I wasn't like wow crazy, you know. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (47:08.313) Yeah. Yeah. I f I feel like that's the biggest any pr if you're a beginner producer and you you think you get a placement, people always get too excited before it drops and then it never drops. So might as well like yeah, I feel that. They wanna like upset yourself. Yeah.

VisionEXE (47:18.637) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Bro I have like so many hi I have so many unreleased songs where I'm so happy but they never came out. So I kinda like at this point I kinda got numbed to it. If it like drops then I'd be happy but s d before that

Esteban Candelario (47:31.597) Yeah. That's funny.

Esteban Candelario (47:37.434) So I'm really curious and I always ask this question like how how the business end works, right? So you sample somebody and then, you know, you you throw that sample out to a couple of people and then it ends up on a project for a major artist. So how does it work? Do they do they contact you? Do you have to reach out to them? Like or does everything kind of happen naturally where they include you in on the splits, the royalties, the publishing?

VisionEXE (48:00.611) It it really depends.

On like it it comes from like case to case, like the Gunnar song, like I just got approached by two s by Dison and then he said, Yeah, okay, bet that's your sample, somebody's gonna contact you in the next couple days. Just make sure to like check. And I was like, Saless. And then they approached me, I sent that to my manager, and they basically got all that done.

Esteban Candelario (48:09.081) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (48:25.487) Wow, that that's that's probably like the easiest story that I heard from any producer.

VisionEXE (48:29.113) Yeah, like it's it's definitely like sometimes it can be hard. Like I had the Roddy Rich song with Doughboy and Gunnar, Dobboy and G-Herbo and like Mastard and Soft on the beat and cut and it was like really hard for me to get like in the conversation because I had like no nobody reached out to me and qubits were like the only people that actually tried to help me because they were like, Yo, we're in the conversation right here, we can like get you in there, this and that, this and that.

Esteban Candelario (48:34.275) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (49:00.025) but I had a couple problems with like a lawyer who said he was doing stuff but actually in the back of things just didn't do anything like six months and I wasn't like even in the conversation at that point. and then I got in contact with my manager, that is still my manager today. I was basically talking to him for like four months and always saying, Yeah, my lawyer's gonna handle it. He was like, I can I can handle this for you, it's no problem. And

Then basically my me and my lawyer had a falling out and then my manager said, Yo, let me just do this. I'll do this for free. Just I just want you to get paid. And I was like, That would be nice. And then within twenty four hours, he's like very, very, very insanely connected. He basically called he FaceTimed Roddy's manager and cleared the situation up. And then they basically just got me in the email chain. And from there he basically handed all the like negotiation and everything. So that was like lucky on my end.

Esteban Candelario (49:51.769) Wow.

VisionEXE (49:54.286) 'Cause I was just like that was my first big placement, I wasn't really prepared how to do anything. So I was really lucky there. But yeah, it really depends on case by case basis.

Esteban Candelario (50:04.335) That logio is probably doing the same thing you were doing, just fucking waiting for a reply, bro. Like to to go from like six months and then twenty four hours.

VisionEXE (50:08.835) L he he He didn't he didn't even reach out to anybody though. He was just always saying he's working on stuff, like he's working on it, but he was never working on it, you know. Yeah. Happens.

Esteban Candelario (50:13.835) that sucks.

Esteban Candelario (50:18.265) Yeah. That sucks. No, that sucks. Was that did you h did you pay him like like a retainment or like were you paying him per time you were using him?

VisionEXE (50:25.453) Mm mm. I was like basically paying him per percentage. So like if I let's say get a five K advance then he would get like a percentage of that. so it wasn't that bad. But for me it was like just bad because like people were waiting basically on on it and I felt bad because I just didn't know what to do, you know. And then yeah.

Esteban Candelario (50:34.553) Yeah. Mm.

Esteban Candelario (50:42.479) Yeah, I bet.

Esteban Candelario (50:47.757) Yeah.

So, I mean, talk about having like a manager, like 'cause I mean if you're I mean it sounds like if your manager didn't get involved or if you didn't meet him, like you may not have got gotten that or it would have taken a l way longer to have gotten that. So like how important it is is it to have like a manager to you at least?

VisionEXE (51:08.885) It is important. definitely. If like you're actually getting songs. Because I feel like like I'm not a like person that goes there and like presses people around like a thousand bucks. But it's important that somebody does, because else you're not gonna get paid at some point. And you should get paid for your work, especially if like you contribute like a big part. so having that for me is like

Esteban Candelario (51:25.508) Right.

VisionEXE (51:37.934) insanely important. And it's also just great to have like a second opinion on st stuff from a person that's actually involved in the industry like for a long time and that knows how like stuff works basically. I would say it's it's it's pretty important to like have a good manager. Like if you're not not gonna be the good guy that actually dives headfirst deep down into the material itself, you know, if you're that kind of guy who says, Okay, I can handle

like negotiating the whole time and talking to lawyers the whole time and like talking to other managers and stuff like that, then go ahead. But for me personally, I was already slumped with like making content, making like ten samples a week, doing this, doing that, going to sessions in Germany and doing d all this, that I just couldn't bring myself to like do that as well. And then I was like pretty happy to have him, you know.

Esteban Candelario (52:34.489) Yeah, and the timing was really good too. You know, like I think a lot of producers they want a manager before they even need anything to manage. Unless you have a manager who can create opportunities for you even in the beginning stages of your career. But, you know, if you're not at that stage of your career, then it's not like necessarily something that, you know, you need until you get to that point sometimes, not all the time.

VisionEXE (52:36.323) Yeah. I was perfect.

VisionEXE (52:52.399) Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't go out looking for one if there's no need for it yet. You know, if if like like I didn't have t ha like I didn't have to have a manager like from twenty twenty to twenty twenty one basically because nothing was going on. You know, I wasn't getting any placements, like stuff was not really happening. but yeah, I was just very lucky that he basically followed me on Instagram and

Esteban Candelario (52:59.037) Mm. That's true.

VisionEXE (53:21.625) He's like a super mysterious guy. He has like a random picture on Instagram. He has like a thousand followers. But all these thousand followers are like the industry, like giants basically. He's private profile. and then he just followed me. And then he just had, I think, like manager or something in his bio. And I was like, okay, interesting. I I think at a time he was at a label. I think he was at a certain le I don't even remember. But I was I was just followed him, followed him back, and then he just messaged me one day.

Esteban Candelario (53:25.603) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (53:44.055) Mm.

VisionEXE (53:49.978) And we just casually talked a little bit. Like he was just asking questions like how's the music going? Anything happening? Anything you need help with? And stuff like that. And then we just hopped on the call and just talked for like an hour. But he never like said, Yo, do you want me to manage you? Or anything like that. He was always just trying to like ask me if I need help or if there's anything I c he can help with. And then like once my lawyer and I had this falling out, I basically went to him and asked, Yo,

Esteban Candelario (54:06.463) Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (54:19.568) Can can you help with that? Because he already o offered his help like earlier and then he was like, Yeah sure, let's it And then from there like it basically just went the same way. I don't even have a contract with him.

Esteban Candelario (54:33.443) What? That's crazy.

VisionEXE (54:35.086) It's just like I don't know, it's just trust basis. So, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (54:39.811) Wow, that's crazy. I think that's I think that's the first that I've heard. Like no contract. But I mean that's interesting. I feel like there's a lesson in in that and itself, 'cause like the way he approached you was just is there anything I can help you with? Before he even asked, you know, can I become your manager? And I think I think that that serves for producers too. Like if you're trying to reach out to an artist or if you're trying to reach out to a major producer, figuring out what they need is a lot better than just sending them boot beats. You know, sometimes people yeah, yeah, be anybody can send anybody beats. And right now

VisionEXE (54:55.109) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (55:09.773) I feel like with the like the market, it's just so oversaturated with music. Like so if if you're if you're gonna be reaching out to people, I always tell people like make sure you know how to mix and master, make sure you know how to make cover art, make sure you know how to do other things outside of making beats that apply to, you know, helping them. 'cause you'd be really surprised, you know. And I think your manager is like a good example of that. so I know like the industry can be like really tricky.

VisionEXE (55:13.819) Yeah.

VisionEXE (55:26.0) Basically just skills deck in.

Esteban Candelario (55:35.022) Like, you know, for example, you mentioned you waited three years before you got that placement with that sample that you made. so like was it in terms of like the placements you were landing, was it did it always take that long? Did you ever experience like some sort of burnout? You know, just making all these loops and and basically it's like a giant like you f it feels like you're gambling essentially. Like you're just throwing shit out there and hoping it lands. So was there any like sort of burnout that you that you like felt or experienced, or is it something that you just kept doing?

VisionEXE (55:55.696) Yeah.

VisionEXE (56:01.828) Yeah, like like multiple t I like struggled with burnout like a lot. Especially like the last couple years. to the beginning of your question. It's not always like that. I had that road replacement which basically I made the sample, posted on Instagram and like a pack. Like got like hella DMs, like probably like two hundred DMs from people that wanted to wanted a pack to use it. QB's was one of them. I sent them the pack. They sent like a sample back a day later.

Instead they're gonna send it out to Southside. Southside was in a session, he's they sent the sample. Southside was in a session with like DJ Mustard, Roddy Rich and all of them. They made the song. Next like I think like five days later, Roddy Rich posts a snippet. Like a week later the song drops. So sometimes you're lucky, but that's like a rare case. But like yeah, but like back to the burnout, I struggled with burnout exactly that, like exactly for that reason.

Esteban Candelario (56:51.353) Yeah.

VisionEXE (56:58.02) Like looking back at it, I basically just structured my career really badly. And that's like one of the reasons why I got burnout. Because I was basically gambling. I was basically just hoping somebody would like use the email, see the email, use it, get a song. but on the other side I was building like the YouTube channel, which I stopped at a certain point because I was just making too much content and I wanted to focus on music.

Because I didn't want to be a content creator anymore. I just wanted to be like a music producer. But I basically cut myself a lifeline. and then I just made the whole problem worse of the burnout because like I really just depended on the lottery basically. Which is like never a good thing, you know. but yeah, I struggled with burnout a lot. Like I had so many phases where I was so close to quitting music altogether, like multiple times.

It was really bad. But I would just attribute that to like the way I built my career, like my my whole system.

Esteban Candelario (58:04.324) Yeah.

Did you did it force you to take any breaks? I know you mentioned you didn't quit, but did you at least like

VisionEXE (58:09.818) Yeah. I took like a lot of breaks. I basically every other year I took like a three, four months break break just because I just couldn't deal with it anymore. I like in my head I was finished, you know. But after like two or three months I started coming back to slowly and slowly again and then this and that, you know. Actually I just came back from a break. Like like what, like four months ago or three months ago. Like I was like only making songs at the time.

Esteban Candelario (58:19.918) Yeah.

VisionEXE (58:38.094) Because I was just so burnt out out of sample making. that I just couldn't do it anymore. I just didn't want to do it anymore. And then I started making whole songs. I like I didn't do anything for like two months, and then I came back, made like songs, whole songs, and kinda reignited the passion. Then I started making songs, and then like two months ago or something, I basically had this feeling, you know what? I want to make a sample. And then now I'm slowly getting back into it.

Making a sample a day, posting on like a whole lot of websites, making beats a d every day now, which is a great thing. I make like two, three beats a day, every day, which is great thing. like connecting with artists, making my own music, so yeah.

Esteban Candelario (59:25.967) Nah, bro, like I think that's the whole point of it. You know, I I like see a lot of people, they do it and then it doesn't become fun for them. And that's why I think it it's it's so easy to quit, or like, you know, sometimes you're forced to take breaks. But I mean it's it's funny because now it's like coming full circle. Now you're making full songs again, like how you started, and then you know, you kind of went to the second stage making the samples, and now you're but I think it's really important to like make as you feel too. Like, you know, you feel like making a full song, you feel like making a sample.

VisionEXE (59:42.267) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (59:53.301) I I genuinely feel like that also makes the best like product. You know what I mean? When you're when you're

VisionEXE (59:57.009) Yeah. But that's that's that that's like the kinda that's like what drives people insane in music. Because like if you're gonna if you make it like if you make music as a hobby, then it doesn't matter what you make because like you're not expecting an outcome. And that's when the best music is made. You know, if you have like no pressure from the outside and you can just like completely follow like what the fuck you wanna do right now.

But as soon as you take the step to hobby to job, especially if to if you take that step too early and you barely make enough money to scrape by, then you have a problem that your music pays the bills. And let's say I make my my my money like on waves, that means I gotta put out a sample pack every other week, every week. And that means if I make a sample, like I have to make sample, like I gotta pay the bills, you know?

Esteban Candelario (01:00:54.788) Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (01:00:54.81) So even if I wanna make a song, I gotta make a sample because like I gotta pay the bills. Or I gotta make or I I gotta upload two type eats because I gotta pay the bills. Or I gotta do this and this to pay the bills. And you get can get caught in a loop where you stop making music or you stop like exploring like fun thoughts and like fun ideas for like security and like the money side, you know, and that kinda can kill like the creativity and the great output.

Esteban Candelario (01:00:59.599) Exactly.

Esteban Candelario (01:01:24.193) Uh-huh.

VisionEXE (01:01:24.938) And that in turn can make like your sales drop or like everything drop, you like the mu quality music drop, and then it becomes like a vicious cycle where you see that your like the money on your bank goes down, that kinda gets you in a look of fuck fuck, I gotta make money, you know? And that kinda puts outside pressure on the whole thing and your music just gets worse. And then that's like a whole cycle that's like super bad or two super hard to get out of. Because you basically have to take a step back.

Esteban Candelario (01:01:33.497) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (01:01:52.003) Yeah

VisionEXE (01:01:55.013) And realise that if you don't follow these creative thoughts or these like feelings that I you know what, I just wanna make a song, then you basically lose like the best songs or the best samples or the best beats that you make.

Esteban Candelario (01:02:03.737) Uh-huh.

Esteban Candelario (01:02:11.075) Hm. I agree. I agree. And I think the irony of it is not caring as much about that part of it. And then it the the creativity will always come. You know, it it's always gonna be something that's gonna be there. but as soon as that pressure is put on you, when it comes like a full time job, then you're not you're not the first producer I've spoken to that has like that has talked about that pressure and then they talk about how like they don't enjoy doing it anymore. And like some producers I've spoken to, they just quit and then they come back to it and they realize like I'm just gonna do what I want instead.

VisionEXE (01:02:16.817) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (01:02:39.395) And they find out like, it works. It still works. You know what I'm saying? Like the money's gonna come eventually. which I find which I find interesting. But I think it's something like all all not even producers, all people or all creatives should go through first. You know what I'm saying? understanding like I don't I don't even think it's a balance. I think it's just doing what you wanna do creatively and then just knowing that everything else will work out for you, even even though it doesn't feel like it. It's just it's just a hard industry to be in.

VisionEXE (01:03:05.671) It's just such a paradox to like to to like live through, you know? Because like on the one you can just like not worry at all. It's just it's just so weird. It's it's such a like I don't know, it's hard to describe.

Esteban Candelario (01:03:08.164) Yeah.

Mm.

Esteban Candelario (01:03:21.359) I seen a I don't know use threads, but I seen a post and it was like if you have a job and it shows like on a weekly basis, two thousand dollars, two thousand dollars, like every week you make a consistent amount of money. And it was like if you if you own a business, zero dollars this week, next week two thousand, the next week after that four thousand and it's just like, you know, like as I f I feel like it's exactly how it is, like having there's no security with what you do, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. But you know, I'm I'm sure if you like looked at a balance sheet, it'd probably balance out all the way like throughout the year, you know?

VisionEXE (01:03:41.147) Yeah. Absolutely not.

Esteban Candelario (01:03:51.088) probably be yeah. Yeah. so then talk to me about how 'cause you talk about like getting these major placements and then kind of like t taking a step back and taking breaks from the sampling because of the burnout. So do you do you change your approach? Cause you've gotten back into full song making, like you know, producing the full song. Do you d have you changed your approach in terms of like the artists that you want to get placements with? Do you work with smaller artists? Do you still focus on major artists? Like how how does that work for you?

VisionEXE (01:03:51.589) Yeah, keine

VisionEXE (01:04:18.456) I basically come like last week I made a decision to completely stop sending out like weekly emails with samples.

Just because like I don't care anymore about getting like major artist songs. Because I reali like chasing major artist songs is like the biggest trap as like a producer you could like fall into. in my opinion. Because it's first up like if you really think like if you really want to make it as a big producer, then you gotta think like what did the guys before you do? They reached your goal? Like it doesn't matter if it's metro.

Esteban Candelario (01:04:41.561) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (01:04:56.887) Uh-huh.

VisionEXE (01:04:59.385) if it's Kanye, if it's like whoever it is, you know. they basically all blew up with the artist and through that got big because people like basically if they think about like let's say Playbocati they think about Pierre Bourne or Filthy or Benny X. not Benny X sorry Yeid Benny X and

You basically gotta blow off of an artist if you wanna build like a long-term career and if you wanna blow off as a producer in general. That's basically how this. like rarely you find an produ a producer that just pops onto the scene with a like a big song and from there like builds, you know. It happens, but it happens rarely, and it's like in my opinion, much harder to do.

Because like most songs just happen through relationships. It's not even that your music is the best or like you know, you get the best taste, anything everything. It's just like if you have a good taste and you beat some good, but you are like the best friend of the artist, then you're gonna get all the placements. It's just how it is most of the time. so like connecting with artists early is like my number one priority right now.

Esteban Candelario (01:06:00.527) Uh-huh.

VisionEXE (01:06:25.637) I kinda switched my lane, so I'm more into like R and B right now. like that Brent Fayer sound and like looking for like Bryson Taylor sound. and looking for like smaller artists in that lane that I really enjoy. And then just like building a catalogue with them. I to be honest, I don't really care about like the money right now, about for from that. It's just about making like songs. actually like putting songs out.

Esteban Candelario (01:06:46.147) Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:06:53.627) That is pretty much my approach that like how it like impacted my approach to what I wanna do on the producer side of things. I'm still making sample packs every other week on waves and maybe on splice again or track clip. but that's mostly just for like putting stuff out, you know, getting some connection through that and actually getting a couple songs through that. but my main goal right now is just like working with small artists.

Esteban Candelario (01:07:23.371) Mm. I think you know it's crazy. Like I think this is the perfect time to do exactly what you're saying as a producer, to find artists in niches because nobody's developing artists anymore. No one labels don't do that. They just sign people if you if you popped off. You know what I mean? So like this is the perfect time to to work with with artists because who who's developing them? And I think who better than the producer itself, because the producer helps to find their sound, you know?

VisionEXE (01:07:37.265) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (01:07:48.953) So how exactly are you finding these like artists to work with? Like how do you find a good artist? Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:07:53.298) Perfect moment for project placement. producer for I personally use it. I use it today. I use it every day. I just basically use the finder, look for like artists, like let's say Brent Failers, and then I just go through like Spotify l listeners max like 50k, Instagram followers, max like tenk, and then I just message like thirty to fifty person people a day.

And then it sounds it seems like a lot, it is, but like let's say I am pretty lucky now because my Instagram profile helps me like get responses really quickly. That means I send like 20 email twenty like DMs and I get like fifteen responses, which is like insane because back in the day I got sent out like a hundred and got like three responses. so that makes it a lot easier for me, but like let's say I message a hundred people a hundred people

Esteban Candelario (01:08:36.044) I agree.

Esteban Candelario (01:08:40.355) Nice. Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (01:08:45.753) Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:08:52.443) Realistically probably one turns into connection where like songs happen. So that means you gotta like really be in the trenches and message people and try to really build like a friendship and like develop like something. so yeah, I use producer fury for that. And then the finder and then just like DM like a madman.

Esteban Candelario (01:09:15.939) Hm. I mean, if you had to you kinda explain how you use producer theory, but if you had to explain it like in a nutshell to like a producer watching this that has no idea what it is, like how would you explain like what it is?

VisionEXE (01:09:28.107) it is basically a way to find producer, to find artists that s have a certain sound. That means if la if there's a big artist with a certain sound, then you can basically lock that artist and producer fury is gonna I don't know how they do it. I I think it's like through Spotify API, whatever, but finding s artists that

match that sound. Or it's probably like if I would have to guess, I don't know, like actually, but it's probably like it's this artist and he has those types of fans and those types of fans listen to these artists. And Producer Fury is showing you these artists that are based on filters that you set. I think that's like, I don't know. I'm not sure if it goes like that. But it basically helps you find artists. Okay, perfect.

Esteban Candelario (01:10:22.455) No, that that's exactly No, that's that's exactly what it is. And you mentioned something that I want to loop back. You mentioned that your profile helps you, because you have like what eight thousand followers and you have your your content is really good. And I feel like a lot of people say like, Well, I don't get a lot of replies and that comes back to what we were talking about like maybe forty minutes ago was like, dude, if your content isn't there, if you don't have enough mutuals and if you don't have like if you're not building followers, then of course like the amount of people replying back to you is gonna be even lower.

VisionEXE (01:10:28.135) Okay.

Esteban Candelario (01:10:51.843) You know what I mean? but that's all part of the game. I go ahead. I was gonna ask, like, how do you feel about, you know, finding an artist that you genuinely believe in, but they don't have a budget? And I think that's like a pretty common issue, right? Like it's just expensive to be an artist. So like, you know, on on your end as a producer, you know, at the end of the day it is a business for you.

VisionEXE (01:10:55.502) Is yeah just call it?

Esteban Candelario (01:11:16.803) Do you still work with that person? Do you work something out financially or do you not even move forward because, you know, it it for some producers money's first?

VisionEXE (01:11:23.276) It really it it really depends. it I go through like a checklist. If I really really believe in the person, like let's say I'll go through a checklist that is like have they like released songs, like how many songs did they release this year? If it's like let's say it's half of the year, if they release like five songs, that's like a upvote for me. It's like good, okay. Checked. Do they like post like content or do they like not even content but

Do they have like marketing? Do they like put out ads? Do like more physical marketing? do they like play shows, stuff like that? Yes, if it's checked, great. You know, it can be content marketing, whatever. Do they like try to get eyeballs on the music? That's like what I'm checking for. And do I like the music? If all of those are th are checked and I really enjoy the music, I don't care about like the budget for now. I it's obviously a business, so I have to like

get it back somehow, that means I might take a bigger cut for not like charging up front. but I'm down to work, you know? But if it's like an artist where I like the music and he's releasing often but he's like n not posting anything or like not trying to get stuff on his thing, then I'm still gonna work with them. But I would have to like I would try to

Esteban Candelario (01:12:24.879) Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:12:48.914) Help them in that regard, but I would still I would have like it has to like balance out somehow. That means if I'm not taking a cut right now, like in advance right now, or like a prize up front, then it has to balance out. That means okay, then I'll just get more master points, you know, as an example. Like it'd be like that. Like I know how it is to to be an artist because I just started releasing songs, right? So I know how it'd be, but

Esteban Candelario (01:13:11.257) Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:13:18.502) Then I just have to get master points. It is what it is, you know?

Esteban Candelario (01:13:21.837) Mm-hmm. No, yeah, I think I think it's really important. And I totally agree. Like especially if especially if an artist is active and like they're grinding and I and I feel like if I'm gonna be producing or developing them, if if that's something like they're not doing, like I wouldn't even wait. I don't even care if you have a million streams and you drop like, you know, you haven't dropped in six months, seven months, like I may not even want to work with you. Like, you know, I'd rather w I'd rather work with somebody who has amazing potential at ten thousand monthly Spotify listeners.

VisionEXE (01:13:41.5) Yeah. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (01:13:50.179) that's releasing consistently like every week, than somebody else on the opposite spectrum that just doesn't e you know what I mean?

VisionEXE (01:13:54.099) Yeah. I like for for me it's like as a producer it's really important that you release stuff. Like it's so important to me. Because like it's cool. Like I love the like romanticisation of like making an album for like three years and then just going all out. It's just like not for me personally. Like at least not now in my life. Like if I'm down the line, like if I'm older and I really like want to do like an album and a concept album with somebody

Esteban Candelario (01:14:07.172) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (01:14:12.921) Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:14:22.384) And work on it for three years, travel the world and do the stuff. I'm down for that. But in the meantime, I don't know. I I love it. Like I just love it when like even as a listener, I just love it when the artist I'm listening to drops consistently. It doesn't even have to be like every week or anything. But like let's say you drop like a a song a year like a song a a song a month and like maybe an EP a year. That's like plenty. But it for me as a fan it's just great, you know?

Esteban Candelario (01:14:38.103) Uh-huh.

Esteban Candelario (01:14:52.065) I agree.

VisionEXE (01:14:52.272) I just want output. You know, I just wanna hear music that I like, you know.

Esteban Candelario (01:14:57.197) I agree. Especially in today's market, bro, everything's coming out so fast that even if you miss once, it's like you're late or you're behind. but cool, bro. I wanted to I wanted to try something. I'm gonna try and do a new segment for this for the podcast episodes. Go ahead, do your thing. Go ahead, do you think.

VisionEXE (01:15:01.682) Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:15:05.074) Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:15:11.996) Can you give me one second? I just wanted to one more thing, regarding the sending out DMs and not getting an answer. Because I like teach a lot of producers, and I hear this all the time that they get discouraged.

If you don't have placements, you're not gonna get responses very often. It's just the way it is. The thing is that the first placement is the hardest to get. Like every placement you get, it gets easier. Because if it if you realistically think, if like OZ slides in somebody's DMs, he probably g is gonna get an answer like 99% of the time. Like probably maybe even 100, you know. that just means that in the beginning.

You might have to send a thousand DMs to find like two, three artists to like log in with, like really. But as soon as like one blows up, one gets a bigger like song that you produced, or like through like random connections you get another song, like you might only need like five hundred or three hundred like DMs to log in with the same amount of artists. And the more like placements you get, the less that number becomes.

Esteban Candelario (01:16:24.909) Uh-huh.

VisionEXE (01:16:27.974) So like there's no reason to be like sad about it, discouraged about it. I just wouldn't even look at like the results or anything. I would just make it a daily habit message thirty pr like message like thirty, fifty, a hundred producers or like artists. and just connect try to couldn't like connect with them. And don't think about or I didn't get a reply or he's not thinking about me or what you know, or I just got ghosted again. Don't think about that.

Esteban Candelario (01:16:49.819) Yeah.

VisionEXE (01:16:56.828) Just make it like a daily daily habit to like send that out because it's really important. Yeah, sorry.

Esteban Candelario (01:17:03.437) I agree. And I'll say this, because you said a thousand DMs, which to a lot of people that sounds like a lot, but I'll tell people this. Go and produce a fury, you find fifty artists a day, and you DM fifty artists a day, fifty times thirty in a month, thirty days, that's fifteen hundred artists. If you do the math, like one percent of that's, you know, whatever, whatever that number is, then the turnaround for that is gonna be what you mentioned, like one to three artists that you really lock in with. So in one month, you can probably find somebody you can really lock in with.

VisionEXE (01:17:08.316) Yeah, but

Esteban Candelario (01:17:32.335) And then if you continue that by the end of the year, you could probably have like ten or more artists, you could probably yeah, exactly.

VisionEXE (01:17:35.312) A roster. Yeah. Like as an example, it doesn't even take that long. Like I did it before this podcast in fifteen minutes I found thirty people and messaged them all. Like fifteen minutes before this.

Esteban Candelario (01:17:39.895) Yeah, I agree.

Esteban Candelario (01:17:45.562) Crazy. That's crazy. that's insane. But cool. Thank you for the sauce, bro. I think that's the whole point, and that that's why I like this podcast, because I know like people like you have that experience and that background, and like you know, that's kind of why we made this. But what was I gonna say? I wanna do some rapid fire questions. All I'm gonna do is ask you this or that, and then you just pick one, okay? We'll just do three three categories. The first one's gonna be production, FL Studio or Ableton.

VisionEXE (01:18:11.101) Mm-hmm.

VisionEXE (01:18:15.209) A now. If you asked me like a year ago I would have said FL.

Esteban Candelario (01:18:16.792) Okay.

Got you. Samples are making everything from scratch.

VisionEXE (01:18:23.689) scratch.

Esteban Candelario (01:18:26.191) Studio monitors or headphones? Loops or one shots?

VisionEXE (01:18:27.635) Help once.

VisionEXE (01:18:32.796) One shots.

Esteban Candelario (01:18:34.337) Melody first or drums first?

VisionEXE (01:18:37.907) Jumps first.

Esteban Candelario (01:18:39.641) Day session or late night session?

VisionEXE (01:18:41.705) Day session.

Esteban Candelario (01:18:43.597) Producer tags or no producer tags? Interesting. Okay. Quality or quantity?

VisionEXE (01:18:46.311) Not for the sticks.

VisionEXE (01:18:51.081) Quantity, because quantity becomes quality.

Esteban Candelario (01:18:52.633) Gotcha. Gotcha. So then moving on to artists and placements. Major artists or independent artists?

VisionEXE (01:18:59.977) AD artist.

Esteban Candelario (01:19:05.081) Placements or producer clients?

VisionEXE (01:19:09.491) Placements.

Esteban Candelario (01:19:10.883) Gunna or Radi Rich. One platinum placement or one hundred placements with indie artists? Really, okay. One one hit record or a consistent catalog?

VisionEXE (01:19:12.297) Gonna

VisionEXE (01:19:17.135) Had replacing with ADRs.

VisionEXE (01:19:23.657) Depends how big the hit record is.

Esteban Candelario (01:19:25.988) Gotta choose one.

VisionEXE (01:19:28.755) Wait, what like what what was that? One hit racket or?

Esteban Candelario (01:19:31.978) One hit record or consistent catalog?

VisionEXE (01:19:34.057) Consistent catalogue. Producer camps.

Esteban Candelario (01:19:36.185) Producer camps or working alone?

Album placement or single placement? Hmm. One hundred thousand dollars up front or royalty points?

VisionEXE (01:19:41.811) single.

VisionEXE (01:19:49.075) Depends on how how many points and how big the song is, but a hundred K up front.

Esteban Candelario (01:19:53.556) Mm, I feel that. All right, last one. Content and marketing. Beat stars or producer peer?

Esteban Candelario (01:20:06.615) YouTube or TikTok.

Instagram or X?

VisionEXE (01:20:11.751) Instagram fuck X. Sorry.

Esteban Candelario (01:20:13.359) Posting posting every day or only posting your best work. Hmm. Tight beats are personal brand.

VisionEXE (01:20:18.429) Hosting every day.

VisionEXE (01:20:25.011) Type it.

Esteban Candelario (01:20:27.065) Face on camera or stay behind the scenes tutorials or studio vlogs?

VisionEXE (01:20:29.619) Face on camera.

VisionEXE (01:20:38.003) Studio blogs.

Esteban Candelario (01:20:39.309) Okay, viral content or evergreen content?

VisionEXE (01:20:44.489) Ever green content.

Esteban Candelario (01:20:46.403) Build an audience or build a network.

VisionEXE (01:20:50.195) But the network.

Esteban Candelario (01:20:51.895) Alright, that was it. All right, bro. I guess before we go, I always like asking this question. You know, if you can go back to your seventeen year old self, let's say they were watching this podcast, if if there is anything that you could have done differently that you think could help somebody watching this as if they were yourself, would there is there anything you would do differently?

VisionEXE (01:20:53.681) That was hard, bro. A couple of those were really hard.

VisionEXE (01:21:04.309) I love that question.

VisionEXE (01:21:14.473) I would do a lot of things differently. Get a consistent job, preferably home office, that like that pays the bills and that lets you not worry about money. Make a beat in a sample every day. Post the beat on YouTube, on BeatSails, whatever you're choosing. Post a sample, like make a sample pack every week on like waves or wherever.

VisionEXE (01:21:45.758) And like message like thirty to fifty fifty people a day. It doesn't matter if it's artists or producers, just get the messages out there. And it basically all comes down to one thing and it's like build like your own empire where like you are the only person that makes the decisions. That you're not like reliant upon other people to get paid, that you're not reliant upon other people to like

get make progress. That's why I'm saying type beats. I don't care if it's oversaturated or not. It's more about like getting a beat in every day and putting it out there. You don't really care about sales, you don't care about views. It's just about like building like a catalog. And if you're making beats you might as well put them out there. and just like build something that's completely yours. Like if you really don't like type beats anything or like making samples then

Build like a YouTube channel. It doesn't matter what it is, you know, don't have to make tutorials. but like build something that progresses your career over a long period of time that only you own. That is like the biggest thing. That's like that was pretty much what break my neck or what made it really hard for me. that I didn't do that early enough. And just stick by it. And if you blow up, don't matter, just stick by what worked for you.

And just stick by it for a long time. And don't get discouraged by like results not happening fast enough. Don't get dis discouraged by like comparing yourself to other people. Don't get discouraged by like human music not sounding how you want it to sound yet. This is a long term long-term game. This is not a sprint. So build something that progresses your career and do that every day, basically.

Esteban Candelario (01:23:43.737) Nice. I love that bro. Before we go, is there anything you wanna plug or is there any place where they can find you at?

VisionEXE (01:23:49.469) I can find me on Instagram at VisionExE. If you're German, you can also find me at Joel Joel Joel. That's where I d do like German content. you can find my samples on waves.com slash VisionExE. I just put out a song. I just put out songs. it's like indie, indie rock ish. It's still really bad, but we're building it up at Damien Joel, and that's pretty much it.

Esteban Candelario (01:24:16.205) Nice. Thanks for hopping on man. It was nice meeting you. Appreciate it.

VisionEXE (01:24:18.122) It was nice meeting you bro. I think like great questions. Appreciate your happy I could help out and happy like hopefully this helps someone.