EP 1: From Bedroom Producer to Spotify Star: TapDaddy's 15-Year Journey

Esteban Candelario (00:02.276) Alright guys, we're back podcast episode 3 producer fury podcast. name is Esteban. If you don't know me I'm a one-on-one mentor slash coach where I help producers essentially get clientele build their businesses as producers today I'm talking with Colton aka tap daddy aka tap. So just take it away man. Introduce yourself and kind of tell us like who you are

Tap (00:21.938) Awesome. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on the podcast Yeah, I guess I guess what I do is kind of complex because I hold a lot of roles I am an instrumental artist. I am a producer. I'm a mix engineer And I do a whole slew of other things, you know, I have a feedback stream on twitch I sell beats on beat stars But I think the the thing that most people know me from is probably my Spotify You know, I've got

About 5 million streams on Spotify and you know, we're going strong over there. So yeah

Esteban Candelario (00:56.325) Nice. Cool, man. So, I mean, tell us what you started off with, because you're wearing many hats now. What was the first hat you were wearing as a producer going into this?

Tap (01:06.818) Yeah, so the first thing that I was really focused on was beat sales, right? That was the thing that kind of got me, or at least when I first decided like, I wanna be a producer, I wanna professionally step into the role of being a producer, right? I basically, you know, there was a point in time that I just decided like, enough is enough, I wanna really go for it, you know? So I started to really like flesh out a plan of like,

all of these different ways that I might be able to make money making music, you know? And the number one thing, of course, because I was, you know, kind of talking with other producers, I just learned about BeatStars. I just learned about selling beats. You know, I was like, OK, well, I'll sell beats. And from there, I was like, OK, what else can I do to kind of give myself more pillars of, you know,

Esteban Candelario (01:39.012) Yeah.

Tap (01:59.353) how to earn money as a music producer. So I was like, okay, well, I need to be making beats around the clock, right? At first I was like, I'm gonna make a beat, I'm gonna publish one beat every single day, which was a lot, you know? And I was like, okay, well, what else can I do? Well, I could live stream my sessions, you know? So maybe I could make some money on Twitch or something like that. And that would also give me content.

Esteban Candelario (02:18.117) Mm.

Tap (02:25.996) that I could then turn into YouTube content. then, yeah, then I could make a little bit money on YouTube, but I was mostly putting my stock in the B-Sales. And then the last thing that I was thinking of is, and maybe if I do all of this really well, maybe people will go check out my discography. But I didn't really put much stock in that, but lo and behold, that turned out to be the most successful part of what I do, is just people listening to my music.

Esteban Candelario (02:53.103) Mm-hmm.

Tap (02:55.288) So yeah, beat sales was definitely the first priority and it still remains to be like one of my main focuses, you know.

Esteban Candelario (02:58.853) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (03:02.853) Nice. So I mean, I feel like a lot of producers like try to figure it out and it's always like it's a matter of like win for them. So how long were you just like making beats for and then how long after that were you like, yo, like I need to take this serious. Like was it like, you just doing it for fun for like 10 years? And it's like, let me just go into it or like how long was it for you?

Tap (03:19.83) Yeah, exactly. Like I've, you know, I've been producing for about 15 years and yeah, the first 10 years of that, I really was just making music for myself, I suppose, right? I mean, I definitely did have goals and lofty goals. I would kind of go through cycles of like, man, I really want fans. I really want to promote my stuff. And you know, I feel like everybody kind of hits this wall of like kind of disappointment of like,

Esteban Candelario (03:34.095) Mm-hmm.

Tap (03:49.173) man, it's really hard out there. But looking back, it's like, man, my music wasn't, like I had cool ideas. It wasn't good enough at the moment, right? And I think a lot of people are kind of in this blinded moment of like, you know, love your music, but you might not hear all of the imperfections until you are like way deeper in this and you really like see all the polish and shimmer of like what makes for some really like,

Esteban Candelario (03:52.037) you

Tap (04:18.456) professional sounding music. But yeah, I did this for fun for 10 years and I'm really glad that I did because I think that that kind of helped me develop like my musical taste, some of the skills, you know, but you know, it all kind of came to a head at one point where I was kind of, you know, I knew I was going to be coming up between jobs. It was like COVID and like I

Wanted to really take a big swing at it, you know I just couldn't really go through my whole life without like having at least tried my hardest at being a music producer, right so So yeah, you know and it's it's crazy because as soon as I really stepped into the role of like I'm gonna make a beat every single day I got so good at it But it's like I produced way more in the last five years than I ever did in those first ten years and I feel like for beginner producers I would just say

Esteban Candelario (05:05.157) Yeah

Esteban Candelario (05:10.179) Wow, okay.

Tap (05:14.656) It's not about how long you've been producing. It's about how much you choose to produce, right? Anybody can sprint up that learning curve, you know? So.

Esteban Candelario (05:22.573) Mm-hmm Now that was a bar that was a super bar. It's not about how long you've been doing It's like how often like the frequency you know what I'm saying. That's true You can go to the gym for ten years But if you're only going once a week bro versus the guy that goes four or five times a week and two years or less He's probably gonna get to wherever you're at, but I find it interesting

Tap (05:38.23) Yeah, and you can make that change any day.

Esteban Candelario (05:40.548) Dude, I find it interesting. You're like out of like all the producers I speak to, COVID is like a pivotal moment. COVID has been like, if I had a dollar for every time, bro, I'd probably have around four bucks. We've only done like three or four episodes. But seriously, so yeah, it seriously was man for a lot of people. It helped me too, ironically, but that's a whole nother story in itself. But did you feel at that point, did you look at COVID as like, know what's kind of forcing me to go this direction? Or it's like, this is an opportunity. Let me just take it.

Tap (05:46.723) Hit

Tap (05:52.11) It was like a renaissance, yeah.

Tap (06:07.982) I'm not gonna lie, I was really nervous about it. So like, and I had just had like pretty rough luck in the job market before then. I had graduated college with a computer science degree. My wife, she got a nice job at a software company and we were gonna try to stay in the town that we graduated from. I was like job searching for like a full year. I got hired at a company finally after a year, three weeks into that job.

Esteban Candelario (06:11.141) Mm-hmm.

Tap (06:36.654) I got COVID hits and I get laid off and I'm like, oh, you know? But then I managed to find this contract position, like working as like an IT assistant at a data center, right? And I knew that that contract was limited. I knew that my time was gonna be up after that, right? And man, it was like very long shifts, 10 hour shifts an hour away from where I live.

Esteban Candelario (06:39.877) Shoot.

Esteban Candelario (06:51.589) Hmm.

Esteban Candelario (07:04.101) Mm-hmm.

Tap (07:06.368) where I'm just like roaming these empty data centers and browsing Reddit and scheming and dreaming and thinking like, man, what am I gonna do after this? And I think what really gave me the push though, because I was like talking to a bunch of producers on Reddit and I was like learning about selling beats. That was something I didn't even know existed before, you know, that time period. But really it was like, afterwards, you know, I was telling my wife like, look,

Esteban Candelario (07:07.193) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (07:12.761) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (07:22.402) Mm-hmm.

Tap (07:35.344) until I can find another job, this is something that I wanna focus on. And really quickly, she was actually the one that told me, well, if you're gonna do this, you should do this. Your music is getting good. You should really buckle down and make this your main priority because the job market is shit. You may as well really go all in. And I'm so glad that she really, like,

Esteban Candelario (07:48.099) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (07:57.486) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tap (08:03.555) bet on me, suppose, because like, I don't know, I feel like it's, it's almost unsensible to really go at music. It feels like such a pipe dream until you really get into it. And then you kind of see like, there's a whole industry here. There's a whole business, like people do this and you can too, if you're willing to really put in the work, right? You know?

Esteban Candelario (08:04.751) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (08:10.341) Yeah

Mm.

Esteban Candelario (08:26.885) Yeah, no, and I love the fact that like you had somebody push you especially like your spouse. Do you think you would have went as hard? Let's just say her approval was neutral. Let's just say she didn't say any of that and it was just extremely neutral. Wasn't a yes, wasn't a no. Do you think you would have went as hard or do you think just having like that extra support from like the person you love was like, hell yeah, okay, fine, I'll do it.

Tap (08:38.083) Yeah.

Tap (08:49.345) man, I think it kind of put the right amount of pressure on my shoulders, you know, because quite honestly, it's like, man, you know, I had parents that really want me to be a software engineer and like, I don't know. And also like, I'm a pretty sensible dude. Like, of course I was thinking like, well, this could be a good side hustle or whatnot, right? But she was the one that kind of convinced me like, no, this could be your main hustle.

Esteban Candelario (08:52.869) Mmm, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (08:59.973) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (09:10.211) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (09:16.132) Mm-hmm.

Tap (09:16.359) And I knew like, well, she knew before I did, she knew really what I knew in the back of my mind, which was that like, I don't want to work in software, man, I want to work in music, I want to make bangers every day. And I feel like that that goal of just like, I just want to make enough off of my music so that I can fuck off and make music all day, right? Like, that's, that's so big to me. But, but I think that it was was really good because I

Esteban Candelario (09:25.029) Yeah. Of course.

Esteban Candelario (09:38.519) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tap (09:45.188) don't think I would have, I think I would have still tried to be like job searching and doing all this where the moment I stepped into music production, was, I was working harder at music than I ever did during my time getting a computer science degree during my time, you know, working in software. It like, it really put me in the hot seat of like, this is the way that you're going to be earning. So you need to make this happen, right? And,

Esteban Candelario (10:12.281) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tap (10:14.563) I think that with that, was just like working like 12 hours a day, seven days a week, just like really trying to figure it out, you know? And I think that it made me really look at things super practically and actually like really do my homework on how, how this was going to work and, know, really put together a solid foundational like business plan, before leaping into it. Right. So.

I don't know, think she definitely helped me, convinced me to really like give it the time that I needed to get this off the ground. And then once I was in it, it was like, well the pressure's on. This is how I'm gonna be doing it, right? Like, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (10:54.861) Mm-hmm.

No man, I think you worded it perfectly man. There's a huge difference between feeling an immense amount of pressure and then feeling the right amount of pressure, you know, because like with the support it was also pressure where you're like, you know what, like I have leverage, I have hope and I know that I can, you know, that self belief takes it to a whole nother level. It takes your grind to a whole nother level. Like, you know what I'm saying? Because my thing is like this, like motivation, it flees but discipline stays. That's like my, the thing I live by, you know, the mantra. It's like, dude, yeah, motivation burns like gas.

Tap (11:12.878) Yeah.

Tap (11:23.425) Absolutely.

Esteban Candelario (11:27.323) But your take will go on easily bro But once you have that discipline and you're just like you're doing it 12 hours a day seven days a week like you mentioned Bro with time comes with everything that you learn and everything becomes practical. So talk to me I actually want to break this down like step by step What was the very first thing as soon as you got that like, know little motion in your mind? Like I'm gonna do this for real was the first thing you did

Tap (11:42.287) Mm-hmm.

Tap (11:49.648) So yeah, the first thing that I did was make a business plan, right? I had to just really put it all down on paper like, okay, like how am gonna get from point A to point B, right? And there was definitely, I think with that, kind of helps you put in order all of the details that maybe you wouldn't be thinking off right off the bat. Like, okay, well, I'm gonna need music licenses, right?

Esteban Candelario (11:54.021) Mm-hmm.

Tap (12:18.019) and I'm gonna need an understanding of licensing and how that works and all of that, right? So it's like, okay, there's a lot of research that I have to do there, right? And then from there, it's also like just putting it down on paper, like where's your money coming from? And I think one thing that's really important in music is being able to kind of diversify your income a little bit so that if you have a down month in sales, you might have an up month

in some other regard. Maybe it's, you know, live streaming or whatever, right? And I think that the more ways that you can kind of diversify, the more buckets that you can kind of put out to catch rainwater, you know, you get a lot more overall. And I think that by really kind of planning it all out, I kind of set myself up to start out now.

Esteban Candelario (13:01.999) Mm-hmm.

Tap (13:12.719) Where I went from that initial step of like, you I got my business plan where I'm like, I'm selling beats, I'm publishing a beat every day on YouTube, I'm live streaming my studio sessions, I'm, you know, trying to make content wherever I can. Like, what ended up happening though was like, I started to find little things to pivot to. Like, somebody asked for me to review their beat on my Twitch stream, right? And I was like, I was like, sure, why not? Let's do it.

Esteban Candelario (13:38.446) Yeah.

Tap (13:42.138) And then that was really fun. He's like, man, like I got a bunch of friends that produce, can I bring all my friends Sunday, like for some reviews? I'm like, yeah, sure. And then suddenly so many people wanted reviews, I had to build a system for it. And I was like, okay, subscribers get priority, right? And then suddenly my Twitch is like getting super monetized and starting to really get pushed in Twitch's algorithm because I've got a feedback stream that's just going and it just happened, right? And it's like, okay, like,

Esteban Candelario (13:47.909) Yeah

Esteban Candelario (13:55.588) Wow.

Esteban Candelario (13:59.181) Mmm, wow.

Esteban Candelario (14:09.174) Mm-hmm.

Tap (14:11.651) I don't know, think that I just had to take that first step forward. it was cool. I started to make a little bit of sales right off the bat, which I don't think happens for everybody, but it was just like a moderate amount that pushed me to go farther. And then from there, it was just kind of like being aware and open to like what's actually happening around me so I can pivot. And I think that was the hardest thing though was like,

Esteban Candelario (14:22.159) Nice.

Mm-hmm.

Tap (14:39.743) You know, you fill your schedule up so much, you kinda need to allow yourself the grace to like dive into something new. Maybe pull back somewhere else and dive into something new, figure out what's working for you and figure out what you're gonna double down on next, right? So.

Esteban Candelario (14:42.511) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (15:00.335) Mm-hmm.

No, 100 % bro, you won't know what the people want until you push it out there. It's literally that simple. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes what you put out there is exactly what they want. Or you've stumbled on an accident and people ask for it. You know what I'm saying? That's a form of feedback. Like, can we just do this? But yeah, bro, you ever seen the meme of the old white guy where he's like, you fuck around, you find out, and he has the graph? That's exactly what it sounds like. So streaming on Twitch was your first form of monetization?

Tap (15:08.046) Yeah.

Tap (15:15.511) Absolutely.

Tap (15:23.651) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (15:31.527) want to clarify.

Tap (15:32.465) I would say second because I was making sales first of all, you know, and I wasn't even on beats stars first I actually got my own license and was like literally doing it by hand by email and I the biggest lesson I learned from that was If you're just selling beats like with PayPal and email that attracts scammers you got to really watch out if you have a like a storefront you're not gonna

Esteban Candelario (15:34.661) Okay.

Okay.

Esteban Candelario (15:55.589) Yeah

Tap (16:00.824) attract scammers and luckily I didn't get scammed but it was just really annoying having like you know people like chat me up for a day or two before ultimately trying to run like a check scam on me or something like that and it's like this bullshit you know like I literally had this one guy he like was tried to commission me he was like I'm going to a birthday party for a six-year-old and we need a birthday rap and he was like can you do that I was like

Esteban Candelario (16:04.26) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (16:15.821) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (16:24.133) You

Tap (16:29.004) Yeah, yeah, man, like, three, $300. I'll get my homie on this. We'll make a song. We literally made a rap song for a four year old that didn't even exist. And then like, you know, lo and behold, I like ask, you know, I'm like, yeah, here's the thing. Here's where you can pay me. And he tries to send me a check for $3,000 and then says, I accidentally sent you too much. Can you, can you send me back?

Esteban Candelario (16:37.999) Bro.

Tap (16:57.936) You know, 2700. That's a scam, right? But literally, I can't believe it, man. We made a rap song for like a four-year-old. like, almost got scammed. It's the craziest thing. But like, I don't know. Anyways, that's a side tangent, but like...

Esteban Candelario (16:59.779) Wow. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (17:05.317) Dude.

Esteban Candelario (17:10.743) Nah, that's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. No, that's crazy. Next time, money first, birthday song second. Now that's hilarious. Yo.

Tap (17:18.704) That's the biggest thing. Also, if you are doing something like that, ask for half upfront. And I've learned anything commission-wise. What I like to do is say half upfront, half at when you're satisfied. And if you're not satisfied, there's no obligation to pay me that other half. I like that because then I can kind of gain their trust. And of course, I'm going to crush it on any job I do.

Esteban Candelario (17:24.186) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (17:41.518) Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I love that. And you know what? Like, let's even dive into that. Like learning how to build trust with people like leaving a deposit is sometimes like it's a hard ask. Like people say no, even for a deposit, let alone a full price. So I know you mentioned your first formal monetization was like kind of like emailing and getting to people. So like, how did that work? And how did you build that process of like learning how to build trust with people when it comes to them leaving money to you?

Tap (18:09.368) Yeah, so like I basically, I was just posting type beats on YouTube. And I think that nowadays the type beats, like it doesn't quite spread in the same way. YouTube for some reason just hasn't been pushing type beats that much anymore. But that doesn't mean that like those rappers aren't there looking for beats. It just means that you gotta find them in a different way, right?

Esteban Candelario (18:25.135) Yeah.

Tap (18:37.328) But when I first started, I was posting one beat every single day, seven days a week. And I was also linking them on Reddit wherever I can, you know, and just literally trying to spread myself as far as I can. yeah, people would reach out. I was making a handful of sales every month. And you know, it was all good. I basically, I would basically,

ask for the money first and send them the beat second. Because you shouldn't trust people on the internet. And the fact that they trusted me, like, I don't know, I think that, you know, I was lucky, right? But it's also like, I don't know, I've got the beat, I've got the license, I gained nothing from not giving you the beat or the license. Like, of course, I want to connect with people and, you know, make a good sale. But I think it's just that, you know, eventually, you just get talking with people and you start to get to know people.

Esteban Candelario (19:10.917) Yeah, crazy.

Tap (19:33.849) you start to get to understand what they're working on. I remember one of the first people that I ended up selling to was my homie, Pestilence. He's a sick ass rapper from Wisconsin. I got to know him and like everybody on his small label, Two Face Media. And like those guys were like, like he was like one of the first rappers that ended up like, you know,

Buying licensing, know from me and I don't know he really like gave me his vote of confidence But I they all kind of like took me in like family like we ended up meeting up in Utah for a rap cypher like a year later and Like I don't know man. I think that you know over time you you end up getting to know people a lot better and I think that quite honestly you learn the more that you sell beats that like

Esteban Candelario (20:11.055) What? Wow.

Tap (20:26.544) 90 % of your sales are gonna be coming from repeat customers. So you should get to know these people like they are your family, right? Like, absolutely.

Esteban Candelario (20:34.787) Yeah. I agree,

It's like and I think that's the biggest misconception people have is like yeah buy a beat and then go it's like no like trust me especially because you never know who you're gonna meet like you made a whole friendship out of this like you know but also you never know you might develop the next artist you know what i'm saying and if you're there early in their journey developing their sound then you could probably be a part of that process when they blow develop relationships so walk me through that process is does it all start from like an email a dm and then you meet with them like through facetime or like how does that go is it strictly through messages like what's that like

Tap (21:06.522) So I basically, and I feel like this is kind of counterintuitive to how a lot of people do it, but this is what works for me. Okay, so I completely avoid cold DMing. You're not gonna catch me just like sliding into people's DMs. I mean, I've tried it in the past. It just doesn't quite work nearly as well. What I like to do is I like to absolutely spread my music around the internet in any which way that I can, really fighting tooth and nail for every single view on my beat.

Esteban Candelario (21:26.08) Yeah.

Tap (21:35.995) that I possibly can just type beats. got a man like just put the word out as much as possible. And you know what? People will drop a comment here. People will DM you here and there. Sometimes they'll just go by the beat and it's like, hell yeah, perfect days work, right? But you know, sometimes you got to create your own opportunities within the the ecosystem that you're building, right? So like somebody reaches out to you.

Esteban Candelario (21:51.673) Yeah.

Tap (22:03.056) And maybe they're not interested in a beat like and maybe they just wanted to reach out and say man I love this beat like You don't have to make the sale right then you might just be it might just be more worthwhile to just like get to know them or at least just like Yo, rhyme it. You know, I've got nonprofit downloads available like go rhyme it. I want to hear you rhyme this like I heard your last project, you know Yeah, send me a demo man. I got to hear this right or like whatever

Esteban Candelario (22:21.055) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (22:30.575) Yeah.

Tap (22:32.334) And then eventually though, I think that where you're gonna see the biggest like sales is like, if you can, you you're getting to know somebody they are definitely interested in buying beats. What I would really recommend is basically having a big ticket item that you can really get, you know, I think for most people it really comes down to bundle deals, right? But it's like, how do you sell this bundle deal, right? I think like,

What I would recommend is like a really valuable kind of pricey bundle, but make it come with a bunch of guarantees, you know? What like one thing that I've been kind of trying and I just sold one last month and I was like, oh cool, this works, you know, was, you know, my buy two get three free on my unlimited licenses, which is a $300 bundle.

Right? But it's like, okay, that's kind of a hard sell. But what if I tell you, yeah, but I'm gonna give you a swap guarantee because when you buy five beats, the chances that you're gonna publish all five, kind of slim. You might find one that you're like, actually, I changed my mind on it. So if you don't publish all five of them, send me the ones that you didn't publish and I'll swap it out free of charge. You know?

So like, that's my guarantee. What I'm selling you is five published beats, you know? Any of the ones that you don't publish, like, come back, you know? And of course, they rarely do. But it's like, that's a big guarantee! Wow, now we're in business. Now we got like a full EP here that is like, no, it's kind of your golden ticket to my entire catalog until you have a five-track EP, right? Now we can really just work as partners, right?

Esteban Candelario (24:08.393) Yeah.

Tap (24:26.109) And it's like, okay, that's a lot more of a solid pitch than just what's up, man, you want to buy five beats for me? You know, it's like, okay, you know, but it's like, you don't come out the gate swinging. And in fact, you don't offer that to everybody. You just offer it to the people that are looking for that type of licensing that are

Esteban Candelario (24:35.437) Yeah.

Tap (24:51.365) you know, looking for maybe they're working on a project. And this is also why it's like, you should always be feeling out what is, what are, where are people's minds at? What are they working on? And also what kind of budget? No, no sense on trying to like pitch a $300 bundle to somebody that only buys, you know, a $30 MP3 license every single time, like, you know, once every six months, right? Like it, those, those people are cool. It's just like, you know,

understand who you're talking to, right? Don't put yourself in these situations where you're expecting impractical sales, you know, where it's just not gonna work. Like you can serve these other people in other ways, you know, even people that aren't buying beats, you can still be offering them nonprofit beats because these people that aren't buying beats today are gonna be the people in one year or two years that are gonna...

go through the same process I went through and go no, this is it. Like we're gonna do this for real now. So now I'm going to do it the right way. And they're going to remember I love this guy's beats, right? So just treat everybody with kindness, but you you you find the people that are going to really invest in you, right?

Esteban Candelario (25:58.694) That's interesting, I think.

Esteban Candelario (26:05.349) 100 % like I like how you over deliver from the beginning like usually people promise and then over deliver on their promise But like you like upfront like dude, I'll give you five and if you don't like it We can swap out whatever you don't use So where do you do you come up on that pivot on your own? Is that something you learn or is it trial and error? Like, you know, how'd you learn that?

Tap (26:24.921) Man, honestly, I got the idea from, I don't know, I'm always trying to stay up to date with like, here's the strategies for 2026 on how to sell beats, you know, okay, I'm the guy watching these going, okay, what's going on? And even though I've been selling beats for five years, I still just like to hear people's ideas and I forget who it was, but I learned that from some video, right? I was like, swap guarantees, that's a banger, hell yeah, you know?

Esteban Candelario (26:29.699) Yeah.

Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (26:52.855) Yeah.

Tap (26:54.353) But honestly, look, all of this is trial and error. You're gonna win some sales, you're gonna lose some sales, whatever, right? And I think, quite honestly, one of the biggest things that I've learned over the course of trying to sell beats is stop trying to make a sale at every single moment, right? If you run into every situation like, buy my stuff, you know.

Esteban Candelario (27:20.985) Yeah. Yeah.

Tap (27:21.329) It's weird, right? Feel it out first, you know? Because I think like, look, if you can, it's, selling anything is kind of weird, I think, if you're doing it the wrong way. But if you're doing it the right way, where it's like, look, you have a great product, right? You got a solid beats, you got solid licensing, and people need beats and people need licensing. If you just kind of leave it at that, right? You're talking with the people that need licensing, then there's no,

reason why you should feel inauthentic or in any way and I think really authenticity like authenticity is when your outer self and your inner self are the same person right like if you can find a way to sell beats and be authentic right then you're doing it the right way you know if you come into every situation like you know dreaming scheming I want to be everybody's friend you know it's like

Esteban Candelario (28:15.789) Yeah.

Tap (28:17.885) You might be weirding some people out, but just be cool, because I think that in reality, and I think that this is kind of what helped pivot in my mind and be a more effective producer, just like, music is fun, and it should be fun, even when you're like on business mode trying to sell beats. At the end of the day, you're making music, you're shopping it by a bunch of artists, and that's a cool process. There's a lot of cool people out there doing awesome things, and you get a chance to like...

be a part of that and connect with them. know, so if you just are just kind of like genuinely a fan of hip hop, right? And you seek out the, you know, seeking out especially like people that you want to work with, right? I think that that makes it more fun as well as like you find people that make music that you know, maybe they're totally undiscovered, but they just make the sickest stuff. It's like, cool, now you can just be authentic and talk with people and you know,

If they're interested in selling, if they're interested in buying beats, they'll buy beats. If they're not, then they won't, you can move on. you know, it's like, you just try to cast your net wide and it'll work out if it's going to, you know?

Esteban Candelario (29:24.515) Right.

Esteban Candelario (29:30.873) Yeah.

I got a personal question to ask then and I feel like a lot of producers run into this especially because you mentioned like, know finding somebody who's completely undiscovered and talented and we also mentioned like, you know being genuine so where does the line get drawn as a producer and as a salesman where like let's say somebody wants to connect with you and like hey let's link up and then you listen to their music and you're like this is just complete trash but but but they got the bag like they have the bag like dude a thousand three hundred four hundred so like what what do you do there like and

Tap (29:34.054) Mm-hmm.

Tap (29:57.446) Hey, fair enough, man.

Esteban Candelario (30:01.575) In my position, I'm taking the money and I'm just working with them. And who knows, maybe I can develop him. Maybe I can develop him. But like, you know, how do you look at it like from that perspective? Is it like, you know what, let me take the money and maybe I can develop him? Or is it like, you know what, just because like, you know, I want to work with Supreme Artists, like, I don't know if I could do this, like, you know?

Tap (30:04.699) Well of course, yeah, but-

Tap (30:18.427) Sure, but look, I'll let you in on a little secret. Once upon a time, I sucked. know? Okay? Once upon a time, I was an absolute bag of dog shit when it came to producing. It just wasn't what it is today, right? Everybody, everybody starts that way, right? And it's like, I don't know, sometimes it's just like, you know, maybe you're just like...

Esteban Candelario (30:22.903) huh. Yeah. Yeah.

Damn dude. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tap (30:45.499) kind of trying to help people out where they can to like kind of get to that next step of improving their music in any which way. You know, I think a lot of people will kind of figure it out all along. But you know, that's the thing is like being good at music isn't the only reason why I want to, you know, hang out and chat with people. Of course, you know, I think part of it's also that I run this music feedback stream. So of course I hear a lot of stuff that is very unpolished, you know.

Esteban Candelario (31:03.471) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (31:11.653) Yeah

Tap (31:14.875) But I make a lot of friends in my feedback streams that, you know, it's like, of course I'm super excited and interested when people come through that have really amazing music. Yeah, some people though are shopping by some, you know, but you know, I still have fun chatting with people, figuring out what inspires them. And really, I think that this is kind of what helps me, drives me in those scenarios is

Esteban Candelario (31:29.369) Yeah.

Tap (31:43.249) I'm so used to being the guy that's gonna try to like teach you this one little trick about game staging or something that's gonna completely make your drums better or something like that. And I like being that guy. I like being the one guy that can teach you X, Y, and Z about just like simple things that might completely change how you do things, right? And so, I don't know, maybe I come across people like this and I think like,

I might be able to help them get to where they need to go, because also, I sucked one time. You know? I used to be bad, right? Of course, it's really fun when you're working with people that are dope, but I'm not turned off from people that are still on their journey, right? So.

Esteban Candelario (32:18.883) Yeah

Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (32:28.133) course. Nah, that was a great way to put it, bro. People that still on their journey. And you're right, that's a really good perspective. I wasn't even thinking about that. Like at one time, we all sucked. One time we weren't good and then maybe somebody just gave us a chance. But I guess, have you ever worked on like developing artists before? And like, if so, like what did that look like for you?

Tap (32:36.646) Yeah.

Tap (32:47.356) So yeah, developing artists. guess that's really like, I don't know, because like developing artists is such an industry term, feel like. That's like, you know, breaking an art. That's like the art of breaking an artist, right? Of like trying to get somebody, you know, into their fan phase, basically.

Esteban Candelario (32:58.572) Mm-hmm.

Tap (33:14.308) And yeah, I've definitely worked with, you know, developing artists. I myself am a developing artist, right? I think it's really rewarding over the course of time when you start to see somebody kind of like really step into their prime, you know? Like I was saying, like I was just talking about my homie Pestilence from way back in the day. And man, I remember when I first met him, he was just really getting the ropes of rapping. Like he was pretty good then.

But like I think that the people that he was around really You know put him through the ropes like let's you know, this is how you rap He popped off in like this insane way. He dropped this album like it called the animal farm Like a year ago. It is some of the most insane like aggressive 90s boom bap shit that I've ever heard You know, and it's like it's so cool seeing people like really step into that

You know, when it all clicks together, I mean, he'd been putting out good stuff before then, but like, I don't know, that's like where I see it in such a way where it's like, no, this has mass appeal. This is, you know, because I just know that when the music is good enough, I feel like people kind of lose faith in this idea that like, you know, we struggle for so long to audience to get ears on our stuff. But when your music gets to a certain point,

like you gotta remind yourself like the music is what sells it. know, people like good music and I feel like there's kind of this magical moment where it becomes less about like, you know, is my music good enough? Is my vision good enough? You know, your music is really good. Now it's just about how do we get it in front of people, right? And that's where it's like, it frustrates me when I am working with a developing artist that really crosses that barrier where it's like, this is fucking amazing. Now we need to like,

get this in front of the entire world, right? It's like, I know what it's taken to grow my audience. And I am not sure that everybody has the time, the budget, the mentality to really grow it in that way. But you know, I feel like when you start to actually develop either yourself as an artist or somebody around you and you see it work, it becomes

Tap (35:32.974) instantly incredibly frustrating because you look around and you can see exactly why people aren't popping off, you know? But I don't know, that's kind of my thought process on developing artists is it's like, there's a barrier. And then once you reach that barrier, the rest of it is marketing, you know?

Esteban Candelario (35:49.903) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (35:54.008) Okay, so I mean then that begs the question, know, because you mentioned you're kind of a developing artist yourself Where because I know right now like streaming platforms is huge streaming platforms is like one of the easiest ways you can build your fan bases So how did your development start and like what does that development look like for you and like all streaming platforms so far?

Tap (36:12.742) Yeah, so how did it start? man, really was that like, look, it starts where everybody starts, getting the music to the right spot, right? Getting it to where it needs to be, which I honestly think so much of this is like, the bar is higher, okay? Everybody thinks that their music is, you know, their gift to the world, right?

Esteban Candelario (36:39.599) Yeah.

Tap (36:40.464) The bar is really high. Let's think about it really realistically. Does your music have a professional mix? Does it sound professionally mixed? Is it professionally mastered? And if you're not working with a mix engineer and you're not working with a mastering engineer, are you capable of mixing to that level? That's the thing is it took me a long time, I think, before my music was even ready. But I was just publishing music.

really consistent with what I was doing. I was really consistent about how often I released music. And so I was always improving, right? I eventually got to a point where my mixes were getting so good that other people were asking me to mix their music. And I started to become a mix engineer. And that also helped me, I think, lock in and dial in my music. the thing is that the first step is the music and the bar is

Esteban Candelario (37:27.215) nice.

Tap (37:39.665) really high, right? But beyond that, the next step is after you have really good music and after you have a really steady schedule, because I think most people are so tripped up on these two things. Most people do not have the polish yet, right? And I think most people do not have the consistency down. They might have like a single ready once every three months or something. It's like,

You know really what's recommended is like maybe once every four to six weeks you have something to drop for me as a producer I can move a little bit faster than that so I drop something on Spotify every two weeks and Sometimes it's a single sometimes. It's an EP sometimes I have a full album that I just drop on people, but I drop every two weeks right this is what's required to grows really good quality really good consistency and then only after you have those two down

can you really focus, should you really focus on this third one, which is the marketing, right? Like, if you want 100,000 people to listen to your music, you need a means of showing your music to 100,000 people, right? That's a big, that's like the, just the honest truth of it, is you need a vehicle through which you can show your music to 100,000 people.

I think like this is where a lot of people get tripped up. think I get really annoyed when people are like, I want all of my growth to be organic. And it's like, you want your growth to be grass fed? What are you talking about, man? It's marketing. Like every single business in the world relies on some form of marketing. Which is your form? Just a genuine question. Which is your form? And it's like, I don't know. I think like,

Esteban Candelario (39:10.661) Yeah. yeah.

Tap (39:32.446) There's so many approaches you can take. can submit to playlists. You can run ads. You can create content, viral content. You can do any combination of these. It's just like, what is your vehicle and what are you gonna do? But I would just, I don't know, I guess I would just say that people shouldn't be afraid to maybe invest in their marketing a little bit.

figure out what you're doing, what is your path, you know? But I think really finding that line of like, is it time to really invest? Is it time to go? I would say a good litmus test for any artist of like, is your music quality enough? Is like, can you get your first thousand monthlies on Spotify for free? If you can do that, your music probably has something there that might be worth investing in. You know, I think anybody can get their first.

Thousand monthly listeners for free if they're really working hard at it enough, you know And I think that that's a good like yeah, if you can do that, like it's probably got some quality behind it, right?

Esteban Candelario (40:38.021) a good way to look at it, especially your first thousand. So can you talk about how that worked for you practically once you reach your first thousand? What did your marketing look like and then what did it become? What's it like now?

Tap (40:49.223) Yeah, so like, man, I did get my first thousand monthlies for free. was, let's see, I think at this point in time, I was dropping like three times a week, which was way too much for Spotify, by the way. That's a silly idea to drop three songs a week because you interrupt your own algorithm basically every couple days. But anyways, I was dropping a bunch of music.

I was like making these like visualizations of like stuff I was like chopping up random bits of retro footage and stuff to a bunch of hip-hop beats I made this one song called the headband which was just crazy I chopped up this old Levi's commercial that looked really psychedelic and weird and trippy I don't know but it was like it was cool. The beat was crazy though. The visual was crazy I posted it all over reddit and it blew up like it was the

Esteban Candelario (41:32.453) What? That's cool, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (41:44.164) Wow.

Tap (41:47.23) Top post of the month on r slash hip-hop. It was the top post of all time on r slash old-school hip-hop at the time I don't know but it got enough momentum that it caused a push in release radar on Spotify and it got me up to like 1200 monthlies Before I was sitting at 20 monthlies and that skyrocketed me up above that and it's like, cool I had a moment that that hit right?

Esteban Candelario (41:50.362) Well...

Tap (42:13.875) I fell back down to like 200 or so but I kept those people and I was like, okay cool. But it really wasn't like, I didn't get really going on all this until really my wife started working, right? And one day, like she ended up joining me at Tap Daddy Beats because she was just like so interested in what was going on in the room over that, you know, so she was like helping me out for a while and one day she just like woke up, I think it was like New Year's Day of like,

2023 or something and she was like, this is the year that I'm gonna make you famous on Spotify. I was like, yeah. She's like, yeah, I'm gonna do that. And from there, she started to really get the marketing under control. She did all the research. She eventually kind of settled on like, I think meta ads are gonna be the most effective way to get you off the ground. And sure enough, we started experimenting with it.

Esteban Candelario (42:48.869) Okay.

Tap (43:11.307) And my God, it started working. We started hitting these ad campaigns that were performing so much better than any of the tutorials she was watching of like, yeah, you can expect this is a pretty good cost per conversion. This is how you know your ad is. No, she blew it out of the water with some of these ads. My largest song, Lady Moon, that alone has brought so many people to my Spotify.

Esteban Candelario (43:21.209) Yeah.

Tap (43:39.967) Really insane. So now I'm sitting on like we've gotten about five million streams all time since we started to really like push this and I don't know. We're hoping to do so much more this year, right? Yeah

Esteban Candelario (43:49.487) Crazy.

Esteban Candelario (43:53.254) That's crazy. Yeah, that's insane man again the wifey comes in with the clutch like you know what I'm saying support But okay, so maybe I don't know maybe she knows that side better But obviously you're part of the process Can you break down like why maybe why it converted so well was there like something within the ad that made people want to click it and take it a step further

Tap (44:00.113) Right? Exactly.

Tap (44:16.637) So yeah, mean, literally, it's so stupid simple. The thing that made people click on the ad was the music. People really liked the music. People really liked, and maybe it had to do with the artwork. We just literally ran the single artwork and a snippet, like a 15 second snippet of it. And dude, it got like a seven cent cost per conversion.

Esteban Candelario (44:21.944) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (44:25.957) Okay

Esteban Candelario (44:37.957) Interesting.

Esteban Candelario (44:45.923) Wow. Holy crap.

Tap (44:46.611) Which is like I don't know anything below like 25 cents is like pretty good It got a 7 cent cost per conversion and we've just like had that ad we've like had that going like consistently for I think Basically since it came out since ladymoon came out and man I still get I get people all the time like hopping in my comments randomly like

Esteban Candelario (44:51.663) Yeah, insane.

Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (45:13.603) It's a

Tap (45:14.333) Dude, I love Lady Moon. you know. But yeah, I don't know, man. It's just, I think that's the thing though is the audience was right as well. The targeting was really right. Brazil for some reason. Brazil loves that song. Brazil, I think Taiwan as well, really clicked with.

Esteban Candelario (45:27.033) Mmm.

Esteban Candelario (45:37.637) So random, yeah.

Tap (45:39.812) Yeah, Japan, I get most of my Apple Music streams from Japan. I don't know, man, but it's like when the music is right and the audience is right, it works. And I think that through all this struggle and strife, sometimes it feels like that's an impossible reality. But it's the truth, know, if you just the music is right and the audience is right, it will work out right.

Esteban Candelario (45:45.317) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (46:04.515) seriously. So we get we polish the sound and then we get consistency and then we find a marketing plan that basically brings people to us. What's the next step after that? Like for me personally, I'm already thinking like retention. Like how do we keep people and what does that look like for you if you've worked on that?

Tap (46:22.135) Absolutely, absolutely, because once you have all of these fans, then the next question is, how do I stay in touch with all of these fans? And this is honestly something that I'm still trying to figure out. Like, I think just like how I have an email list for BeatStars and for the rappers, I think the next step for me in terms of being an artist is to figure out how I'm going to grow an email list for my fans.

And you know, in the meantime, what kind of helps with just reconnecting with people a little bit is like anybody that drops me a follow on Spotify, there's a high likelihood that they're gonna be served my music in some way, or fashion when I drop my next release, right? They'll probably see it in release radar. Sometimes Spotify just shows it to you in weird ways, you know.

But it's like that's one way that I kind of like stay in touch, right? I think you know social media is also just like a really solid way that you can kind of stay in touch with your audience I'm trying to be better this year about Keeping my Instagram algorithmically engaged because Instagram only shows your followers your post if it performs decent, right? it's like

Esteban Candelario (47:42.245) Yeah.

Tap (47:43.253) I don't know, now I'm like on the other side of this where it's like we've got a lot of listeners. A lot of people, you know, will add my music to their playlist. A lot of people will, you know, be following me on my Spotify or maybe they've got an album of mine that they listen to, but it's a real challenge of how do you keep engaged? And I think that these are the ways that I'm looking towards and trying to flesh out currently is like, okay, social media.

maybe an email list for fans that is separate from my, you know, rappers and whatnot. And, you know, also just trying to get followers on other platforms as well, like Bandcamp, you know, like, I don't know. But yeah.

Esteban Candelario (48:26.053) Okay, let's pause right there. I'll cut this part out and you charge my computer, but this conversation is this conversation is really good I usually keep it at 45, but I'll say fuck it because I don't have no meetings after this now. You're good You're good. This is really fucking good Okay, we're back. Okay, so I mean speaking of bandcamp Can you tell me more about that and like how that's working and is there anything special about bank him in particular?

Tap (48:30.824) Yeah, no worries.

Tap (48:35.848) Sorry, I'm like, I'm just yapping. Good.

Tap (48:49.372) Yeah, so Bandcamp, think is one of the most essential tools. If you are an independent artist that I think that it really appeals to anybody that's like fed up with being paid like a third of a penny, you know, per stream. Like, I don't know, the whole idea of Bandcamp is that they're the platform that pays out the most to artists when people purchase your music. So, you know,

Esteban Candelario (49:05.509) Yeah.

Tap (49:18.078) Think about iTunes and all that, or Amazon Music, anywhere that people can purchase music. They take half of what people are buying there, or sometimes more than that. I think Bandcamp pays out 70 % they give directly to the artist, something like that. Except for on Bandcamp Fridays, they give you 100 % of the revenue. And it's kind of fun, it's cool. I see people...

Esteban Candelario (49:43.397) crazy.

Tap (49:47.337) that have like maybe 5,000 listeners making so much more money than people that have 100,000 monthlies on Spotify, right? It's like you can, like if everybody is supporting you with like $4 when your EP drops, that's a lot more than having 100,000 people listen to your four track EP or something, right?

So like one of my goals and one way that I incorporate this into like my workflow is I like to release some of my projects early on Bandcamp. And ideally I like to kind of time it up with Bandcamp Fridays. And actually at the day that we're recording this is Bandcamp Friday, I've got an album called Return to Earth that is dropping on March 20th and today's March 6th, right? So it's like Bandcamp Friday today.

Esteban Candelario (50:29.829) Nice.

Tap (50:42.612) So I just like stealth dropped my album on bandcamp today told everybody about bandcamp Friday and was like if you would like early access to my album You can go check it out right here and man I remember the first time I did this it was like for my first album and it was insane because like People can pay what they want there that you can set a price and they can pay what they want I had people buying my first album for a hundred dollars

Esteban Candelario (51:10.179) What? Wow.

Tap (51:10.328) I ask them to, but they just, had some people be like, I just want to support you, man. Like, so I ended up making a lot just like, you know, on that first release on Bandcamp. So I don't know. It's a very vital tool. It's a great way. I think one thing that I would just tell every artist is like, you might be surprised how much people want to support you. Just give them a way to support you. And you might be surprised how many people do, right?

Esteban Candelario (51:15.534) Wow.

Esteban Candelario (51:19.791) That's crazy.

Tap (51:39.824) So yeah.

Esteban Candelario (51:41.03) That's insane a hundred that kind of reminds me. I don't know if you listen to Nipsey Hupsell Yeah, it was a nipsey hustle. Yeah where he sold his album for a thousand dollars I think and he had he had a hundred people buy his a thousand dollar. That's it. Just a hundred people when he made a hundred K That's exactly what that sounds like very very similar But yeah, man, I agree bro. You'd be surprised like how much people will support you You just have to make it easy for them. Where can they find it? How can you promote it? Is I'm not now I'm curious like personally I'm just asking on behalf of me but is is Bandcamp Friday literally every Friday?

Tap (51:53.684) That's crazy.

Esteban Candelario (52:10.983) You Ed?

Tap (52:12.652) so I, I don't think it's every Friday. I think it's like once a month or something like that. I, I always just Google like when is the next bandcamp Friday and make my plans around that, you know?

Esteban Candelario (52:18.863) That's so cool.

Yeah

Interesting. Yeah, and I think it's really smart that you built like, you you kind of like I guess pre-release your album on there. People want to get there first. So now how does that work? How are you letting people know? it strictly through like emails or like how does that like all connect?

Tap (52:42.782) So, you know, I had mentioned earlier that I want to get more followers on Bandcamp. And the reason is, is because every time that you drop a project on Bandcamp, it emails your followers and you can type a direct message to your followers. So it's basically like a built-in email list inside of Bandcamp, right? So I'm always pre-releasing projects on Bandcamp and writing my own special, like,

Esteban Candelario (52:49.123) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (52:57.423) Wow, okay.

Tap (53:11.604) message to my art to my my followers there letting them know what is going you know what this project is You know and just letting them know like you're getting this early because I appreciate you guys the most right you know And it's like that's cool. I also you know like just before we went live I Posted on Instagram you know and I put it in my story of like gain early access to my album I've been letting people know about this album. That's coming out so

Esteban Candelario (53:24.389) Yeah.

Tap (53:41.493) stealth dropping. I've already had a bunch of fans telling me that they're looking forward to March 20th. So I'm hoping that they'll see my Instagram today and feel compelled to go check it out on Bandcamp. Even if they don't buy the album, if they just go listen to it there, maybe drop me a follow. It's like that helps me stay in contact with them for every release from there on out. So I don't know. I'm still kind of fleshing out sometimes.

Esteban Candelario (53:55.055) Yeah.

Tap (54:10.846) how I'm reaching my fans. And I feel like that's kind of almost my weak point at this point is it's like, I've got a couple of ways that kind of work. And I try to, you know, get the word out as best I can. But this is why, man, I need an email list just for fans, right? You know?

Esteban Candelario (54:13.059) Yeah.

Mm.

Esteban Candelario (54:22.501) Mm-hmm.

Esteban Candelario (54:26.723) Yeah, no, I agree. I agree and you know what? I think you kind of answered my next question Because I was gonna ask like besides bandcamp. Are you using like anything else? But that's the same I didn't know bank. He did any of that like truly I did not know I thought you just released music and it's basically like a newsletter that you can send out and as well as like Yeah, and as well as like four releases you can send out emails for that. I had no idea they did all that So but I'm curious right because we got bandcamp which is which is which is an insane way to like monetize your music

Tap (54:39.144) Yeah.

Tap (54:43.752) It is.

Esteban Candelario (54:56.867) As far as like, you know, any other releases like on different platforms like Spotify and stuff like that is it I guess it's strictly through social media. That's how we're letting people know and stuff like that.

Tap (55:07.688) Yeah, basically like what's really nice about Spotify is they have this thing called Release Radar. So every Friday they are curating up to people like what are the new releases from people that you follow or you know people that you've listened to recently, right? And what's kind of nice is that Spotify is really good about serving your listeners your music. Like they

What's kind of cool about it, you you probably hear this all the time that Spotify is a great like platform for discovery. like, I think like, here's something that I don't know, my wife says this a lot. And I think that this is something that I got to remind every artist, some of the smartest people in the world are working at Spotify designing these algorithms, like their whole business model is

Esteban Candelario (56:01.414) Mmm.

Tap (56:04.437) people discovering music on their platform. the algorithm is not against you. It's trying to work for you if you work with it, you know? And like, I guess what I would just say is like, Spotify itself has been a really great way of like serving up, you know, new releases from me to the people that wanna hear it, you know? So I like just recently crossed

10,000 followers, you know, and not all of those 10,000 followers check their release radar, but a good portion of them do. And every single, you know, week that I release music, you know, that's a lot of like first week listens, first seven days listens that help put it into motion for the rest of it. I feel like really the strategy for Spotify is you try to get enough momentum on a release that it

kind of triggers other things to happen in the algorithm and it triggers Spotify to push your music even farther. so like your fan base is so vital to that. know, just having your fan base being able to find those releases is like very vital to that, you know?

Esteban Candelario (57:20.535) Nah dude, you're putting a lot of people on game right now, like a lot of people. So I wanna know, cause there's a difference between monthly listeners and the followers, basically the followers get the releases, like Spotify keeps them updated, and that basically pushes you and your algorithm. Is there like a strategy to get followers, to convert those listeners to followers, or you just let the music do its thing and then people naturally follow?

Tap (57:23.263) Yeah.

Tap (57:42.166) Yeah, so man, Spotify followers are like the one of the biggest hurdles I think that I see for every artist like man I know a lot of people that are even like way bigger than me and I have you know struggled to get their followers What has really worked for me and man I would just recommend this for almost every artist that is You know at the level that they're trying to market just run meta ads, man

Run Instagram ads, like run it through Facebook Ad Manager. Don't be boosting your posts. Go actually learn how to do meta ads, right? But you would be surprised how effective that is at creating fans. You know, I put this way above like play listing. I think that when you're an artist on a popular playlist, sure it gets you streams, but it doesn't quite get you fans. I think...

Esteban Candelario (58:15.554) Yeah.

Tap (58:37.555) What you end up seeing is as soon as you're off that playlist, your amount of listenership just plummets, right? And nobody remembers who you were. You were just some song that came up on this playlist and maybe they saved it, maybe they didn't, you know? Whereas if somebody comes across an ad on Instagram and they hear something that they like so much that they actually click on an ad, like,

Esteban Candelario (58:45.957) Thank

Esteban Candelario (59:05.603) Yeah.

Tap (59:06.313) They must really like what they're hearing. They must really fuck with you, right? So if they click through and they're trying to like, these people are, they're trying to find the music that they just heard, right? They save that and then they go to your Spotify profile. What do they do? They might click on your recent release. They might click that follow button. They might do anything and everything, right?

Esteban Candelario (59:10.883) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (59:25.188) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (59:32.933) Mm-hmm.

Tap (59:33.014) And they might follow you on Instagram, right? If they find your stuff on Instagram, right? But like, is, like that is the thought process of somebody that actually clicks through on an ad is they fuck with the music. They want to learn more about you. They want to hear more of your music, right? Rather than if you're just like somebody on a playlist. So this is why I have 10,000 followers on Spotify.

Esteban Candelario (59:47.567) Yeah.

Tap (01:00:03.293) is because like we've been really like advertising for like I think two or three years now and that fan base that has been kind of building over time has really bubbled up to a pretty sizable fan base where I'm like now getting a little bit of fan mail, you know, on Instagram, like almost every day, right? That's cool.

Esteban Candelario (01:00:22.053) That's cool. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah

That's super sick. I would like to know and maybe maybe you don't know maybe you do because I think the band camp thing is like just genius like your own newsletter and then the edge with Spotify is like it kind of just tells people that's following you like your releases. So with Spotify is it just limited to that or can it be similar to band camp where you can find like information on your fans like where they live, how often they listen, you know, like I think that'd be great for artists like to find out like okay in Arizona I just have a lot of people there so I can just do a show there.

Tap (01:00:55.903) Hell yeah.

Esteban Candelario (01:00:56.621) You know what I mean? Does it work like that on Spotify too, if you know? I'm curious.

Tap (01:00:59.955) Man, so like, this is my biggest gripe with Spotify. They do not tell you like anything. They do tell you some stuff, but like, I want, I want a way for if they want to give me their email that they can give me their email so I can write them messages and just let them know about, you know, something that I know they're gonna like, right?

Esteban Candelario (01:01:16.131) Okay. Yeah.

Tap (01:01:22.985) But no, really they give you some good stats on like, you know, where your music, your listeners are located. I know that, you know, aside from like, quite honestly, a lot of my active monthly listeners, which is the people that go to my Spotify to listen, they're not like passive listeners, which are people that, you know, Spotify just algorithmically serves me up to, you know, lot of my active monthly listeners are actually from Brazil, right?

Esteban Candelario (01:01:52.697) Mm-hmm.

Tap (01:01:53.45) Brazil has really embraced my music and really blown it up. I get the most fan mail from Brazil. I'm starting to pick up on some Portuguese, right? It's good, it's good. But that also means that, I don't know, in terms of people that I might wanna be working with in the future, I keep in mind Brazil. I'd probably be working with a Brazilian artist before I'd be working with

Esteban Candelario (01:02:01.7) Yeah.

Esteban Candelario (01:02:14.372) Mm.

Esteban Candelario (01:02:17.828) Yeah.

Tap (01:02:22.485) you know an American artist or somebody from the UK I'm keeping my my Spotify instrumental for now but you know me and my wife talk about this a lot of like if I ever am to like get some rappers on one of my project they better be able to speak Portuguese right

Esteban Candelario (01:02:40.677) Yeah No, man. I mean first off like your journey is insane And I think I think the most important part is just starting like your journey started from you literally like you're you pivoted because of COVID and then you got to exactly where you are now So this is gonna be my last question. I'm just curious

If you could look back on like on your 15 year journey that you've had so far, and if you could prevent another producer from going another 15 years and basically like helping them out and shortening their journey, what advice would you give to them?

Tap (01:03:13.557) Man, guess like, yeah, if I was to go back to myself 15 years ago when I first picked up a DAW, I guess what I would just tell myself is make more music. Don't half ass it. like, man, if I was going as hard as I was, like I told you at the beginning of this five years ago, I started making a beat every single day and my world changed, right?

I got so, so good at music production that I'm curious what my music's gonna sound like five years from now. But if I started doing this 15 years ago when I first got interested in music production, if I got more scheduled out about it, meaning like, I'm setting aside time every single week to make music.

I'm setting aside a goal in mind of how much music I should make. I'm setting aside a schedule for myself for when I should release this music. If I got scheduled out 15 years ago, I'd be so much further ahead now. So much of it is like, this is discipline. If you have goals in music, you should be disciplined in your approach and not just, I'll just do it when I feel inspired. I'll just do it when

Esteban Candelario (01:04:14.265) Mm-hmm.

Tap (01:04:38.782) You know, I'm doing this and you know, if for so many people music is just fun, right? And I for the first 10 years music was just fun, but I did kind of have some inspirits, some aspirations, but you know, and it's like, okay, like maybe not everybody wants to make their, you know, hobby into a career. But if you are somebody that has aspirations, you know this about yourself, start getting organized today and just start getting your plan together.

Start doing what you do consistently and with intent. And I think that that's really the biggest thing is just make more music and do it consistently with intent, right? So, yeah.

Esteban Candelario (01:05:21.071) No, I agree, bro. If you're going to take it serious, take yourself more serious first. That's I think that's like the biggest lesson. But cool, bro. Tell them where they can find you, whatever your ad is, whatever platforms.

Tap (01:05:30.954) Yeah, definitely. I am Tap Daddy Beats on all platforms pretty much. You can find me on Spotify as just Tap Daddy. Yeah, I'm Tap Daddy on all platforms if you're just looking for the music. yeah, tapdaddybeats.beatstars.com. If you're looking for some beats, connect with me. You can reach me on Instagram. I'm Tap Daddy Beats there as well. But yeah, go listen to some beats and shoot me a DM. I answer to all of my DMs, so.

I hope to hear from some of you guys.

Esteban Candelario (01:06:01.135) Nice, bro. All right, peace,

Tap (01:06:04.705) Peace, man.